United Methodist Church split
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Anonymous
| What happened exactly? Non-Methodist here, just curious. |
Anonymous
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Disagreement over supporting same sex marriage. Conservative “wing” is leaving.
It’s too bad. We need more denominations that support ALL people. |
Anonymous
That's it in a nutshell. Also, it's easy enough to look up. Methodist clergy and lay people were not shy about expressing their views. |
Anonymous
The bulk of the conservative wing that is dissatisfied with the direction the church has been moving toward inclusion largely comes from Africa. When you point this out to the social justice crowd, they get very confused and very quiet. --UMC member who supports the church performing same sex marriages and employing gay clergy |
Anonymous
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A little more info (I am Methodist). The two sects are the traditional which want to bar LGBTQ+ clergy and LGBTQ+ marriages and unions vs the reconciling which allows both. Worldwide the UMC leans slightly traditionalist. Europe is about half-half. Africa is very strongly traditional. However, in the US, about 85-90% of the UMC is reconciling.
In the US, the ruling conferences decided that in the US, UMC will be reconciling. But due to the pandemic and other issues, the ruling body has not formally adopted the reconciling position and will not be meeting again until spring 2024. But many of the conservative congregations want to move on, so in 2023, several of them petitions to withdraw from the UMC and have started a new organization called the Global Methodist Church (GMC). And some of the regional conferences have given permission for local congregations to withdraw from UMC. However, the congregations cannot take their church property with them as that belongs to the national organization. Right now, congregations that withdraw will be given a certain sum of money to support their activities and services in lieu of taking church property. Across the US, about 3500-4000 congregations have withdrawn from the UMC. A small fraction have remained independent, but the majority are joining the GMC. That's out of about 30K congregations nationwide. |
Anonymous
| Didn’t the same thing just happen with Presbyterians? |
Anonymous
| I find it interesting that liberal Methodists can not tolerate to be in the same denomination with US churches that oppose same sex marriages being conducted in its churches (which is a separate question from whether someone opposes same sex marriage being legal) but don't seem to denounce (or at least say out loud) conservative/traditional African churches that also oppose same sex marriage. Any guess why? |
Anonymous
Because Africa is far, far away, off their radar screen? |
Anonymous
I was going to say that I know a Methodist minister in Indonesia, same situation. It's essentially a split between first world and third world methodists. |
Anonymous
I don’t; Africa is extremely socially conservative. |
Anonymous
| Yeah I’m not religious but I’m a “woke liberal” and I don’t know why anyone would be shocked about Africa, aren’t most branches of Christianity there extremely socially conservative? |
Anonymous
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The interesting thing to watch will be church membership numbers in the two wings as the split moves ahead. UMC membership numbers have been declining for many years, as with many other mainline Protestant denominations. I have no idea how those numbers will change.
The Virginia Conference of the UMC has had to sell multiple vacant (or minimally attended) Methodist church properties in Northern VA in recent years. In some cases, a different (often more traditional) church has bought the buildings & grounds and then had lots of attendance. “Consolidation” is a word I keep hearing from the UMC, apparently to avoid using words like “Decline”. We no longer attend the UMC because we got tired of “politics in the pulpit” rather than sermons focused on God. We found a different mainline Protestant church where the Sunday service focuses on the Word of God. |
Anonymous
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I think the interesting outcome here is that the mainline Protestant Churches are splitting, with the conservative churches joining with their African colleagues. Africa is of course the center of human rights. In contrast, the Catholic Church is becoming more conservative in the US, despite the Pope's efforts, and is losing members particularly liberal to moderate folks.
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Anonymous
So God is talking to ancient, illiterate humans just the way he's talking to us? Odd then, that the Bible is translated into modern languages and that he would allow any of modern advances, like bound books, instead of scrolls. God is the same, yes, but humans advance, which of course He knows. God's word can even be found on the Internet! |
Anonymous
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“The grass withers, the flower fades, but the Word of our God stands forever” (Isaiah 40:8).
His laws and commandments don't change. (Malachi 3:6) “For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.” As God does not change (Malachi 3:6), so His Word also cannot be altered by the passage of time. (Hebrews 13:8) “Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.” God is the same always and never ever changes. He is always good, always loving, always all-powerful. No matter how this world changes around us, we can trust God is consistent. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” (Revelation 22: 13) People who whine that Christianity needs updating do not understand God. We get it; you want to do things that God doesn’t like and have His approval. But it doesn’t work like that. There are organizations and groups and people that will validate you no matter what. Christianity is not about validation. It’s about salvation. |