USC and Columbia Protests

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read the entire thread, may have already been said, here is what will happen:

Protests continue through summer
Chicago Dem convention is a repeat of 68
Riots and violence lead to Trump presidency
Trump is elected and provides just as much if not more support to Israel

Yes if only Biden would listen to the people and change his support for Israel. Before he was elected he promised to hold the Saudis accountable. Now he thinks he can solve the Palestinians issue by making a deal with the Saudis to recognize Israel while not doing anything to address the Palestinians issue. Bet That does not work and leads to more unintentional consequences.

Though he is lot like LBJ in the Ukraine with his slowly introducing weapon systems and his out dated views on Israel.

Why does he need to listen to some "people"? This set of people, sometimes in life we hear "no", said or implied.
It seems that Palestinians and their supporters do not know what the word "no" means. They have been begging for 80 years, and the answer has been "no". Maybe others just don't want what you want. All that is left is for you to war so go for that.

It’s not some people. A recent survey by The Wall Street journal show that 60% of voters do not agree with his handling of the conflict.

The opinion of the people is irrelevant in a heavily militarized, neofeudalist entity. The purpose of the United States is to generate wealth and maintain power for a few hundred people, by any means necessary.

Conspiracy theory again.

Sounds fairly accurate

The purpose of the US is not to generate power for the few. The few may take advantage of the US to enrich themselves, not the other way around.

What does it matter what the mechanism is when the end result is the same? A deluded, self-referential power class with its geriatric spokespeople in congress has a stanglehold on every aspect of American life. Paranoid and heavily militarized it’s spooked and leaps to brutality at the mere prospect of dissent.

Good lord. The silliness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read the entire thread, may have already been said, here is what will happen:

Protests continue through summer
Chicago Dem convention is a repeat of 68
Riots and violence lead to Trump presidency
Trump is elected and provides just as much if not more support to Israel

Yes if only Biden would listen to the people and change his support for Israel. Before he was elected he promised to hold the Saudis accountable. Now he thinks he can solve the Palestinians issue by making a deal with the Saudis to recognize Israel while not doing anything to address the Palestinians issue. Bet That does not work and leads to more unintentional consequences.

Though he is lot like LBJ in the Ukraine with his slowly introducing weapon systems and his out dated views on Israel.

Why does he need to listen to some "people"? This set of people, sometimes in life we hear "no", said or implied.
It seems that Palestinians and their supporters do not know what the word "no" means. They have been begging for 80 years, and the answer has been "no". Maybe others just don't want what you want. All that is left is for you to war so go for that.

It’s not some people. A recent survey by The Wall Street journal show that 60% of voters do not agree with his handling of the conflict.

The opinion of the people is irrelevant in a heavily militarized, neofeudalist entity. The purpose of the United States is to generate wealth and maintain power for a few hundred people, by any means necessary.

I think these congress people, if they haven't been swayed by the Israel interest group, are certainly affected by groupthink when it comes to Israel.

Watch Speaker Johnson’s interview with Erin Burnett. Hand on a bible, the guy is in an absolute trance regurgitating talking points straight from AIPAC.

Our ejected representatives are bought. It’s a fact, not opinion or conspiracy theory. They’re bought and representing our interests is only a consideration where it doesn’t affect the orders of their true masters. It’s frightening.

No, no, its just a coincidence that both Trump and Biden are reflexively pro-Israel. Its also coincidental that even if you want to vote for the third-party guy, you will get someone reflexively pro-Israel. They differ on pretty much everything else, but coincidentally are aligned on this one thing. See, just coincidences!

Or it could be that 80 years of Palestinian terrorism hasn't endeared the Palestinians to the US?

Just a coincidence.

EXACTLY!

As Americans, we’ve been on the dead wrong side of history many times before. Our judgement, often based on false information, isn’t perfect by any means.

Israel’s conduct over the past 7+ decades is the larger problem in this conflict that has brought us here. Nobody wants to pay your bills any longer. Fend for yourself. What part of that isn’t clear?

Not my bills--Israel's.

US should continue helping Israel as long as it's in our interest to do so. Simple as that.

Do you understand that the determination of what’s in our interest is being made by individuals in the halls of Congress and federal agencies who have clear, massive, and indefensible conflicts of interest, either through their own personal background or their acceptance of lobbyist influence in exchange for $$$?

Do you understand that?

I actually have some experience in how these determinations are made.

There's a kernel of truth to what you are saying, but you're missing far bigger parts of the picture, which creates an ugly (and probably antisemitic) distortion.

You want to know how it really works?

You can label the sushi I had for dinner last night anti-semitic for all I care - the term’s value is essentially meaningless at this point unless I see actions taken that pose an immediate physical threat to someone. Congratulations on helping to render largely irrelevant what should be a serious word.

But sure, regale us with your version of why foreign policy vis-a-vis Israel makes total sense other than through the lens of corrupt lobbying, religious extremism, Cold War bogeymen, and gross conflicts of interest in the discharge of political duties, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read the entire thread, may have already been said, here is what will happen:

Protests continue through summer
Chicago Dem convention is a repeat of 68
Riots and violence lead to Trump presidency
Trump is elected and provides just as much if not more support to Israel

Yes if only Biden would listen to the people and change his support for Israel. Before he was elected he promised to hold the Saudis accountable. Now he thinks he can solve the Palestinians issue by making a deal with the Saudis to recognize Israel while not doing anything to address the Palestinians issue. Bet That does not work and leads to more unintentional consequences.

Though he is lot like LBJ in the Ukraine with his slowly introducing weapon systems and his out dated views on Israel.

Why does he need to listen to some "people"? This set of people, sometimes in life we hear "no", said or implied.
It seems that Palestinians and their supporters do not know what the word "no" means. They have been begging for 80 years, and the answer has been "no". Maybe others just don't want what you want. All that is left is for you to war so go for that.

It’s not some people. A recent survey by The Wall Street journal show that 60% of voters do not agree with his handling of the conflict.

The opinion of the people is irrelevant in a heavily militarized, neofeudalist entity. The purpose of the United States is to generate wealth and maintain power for a few hundred people, by any means necessary.

Conspiracy theory again.

Likely a foreign agent or AI. I believe they are the former. All these antiIsrael posts are from foreign infiltrators who support Hamas and Iran or from people who don’t understand the implications of what they are spewing.

Horseshit. Intentional lies. Sentiment opposed to Israel is widespread and domestic, and you know it.

A little more complicated than that.

Plenty of people oppose HOW Israel is acting in Gaza, but overall MANY more Americans support Israel than the Palestinians.

American sentiment appears to be something like this:

1. We abhor Hamas and terrorism and support Israel's right to defend itself, but think that Israel is going too far in its response.

2. We generally want Israel/Palestinians to find a peaceful long-term resolution. Most

3. We are skeptical of the idea that the US can do much to achieve such a resolution.

4. In general, we sympathize more with Israel than the Palestinians.

Check the polls.

SP

Yeah, I’d agree with that generally, but add that the depth of frustration with Likud snd with Israel’s actions over a VERY long period of time is much higher for many more Americans than you suggest in your summary.

PP here.

That's fair and likely accurate, esp. WRT Likud and the settlers.

OTOH, I think Americans are likely similarly frustrated with the Palestinian side.

Most Americans likely don't believe that Palestinians have made any serious efforts to achieve a long-term, peaceful resolution with Israel. (Just a guess--haven't seen any polling on this issue).

SP

Agree, but I would characterize it as “similarly frustrated”. Criticism of Israel doesn’t and shouldn’t come packaged with a blanket endorsement of Palestinian actions over the past 7+ decades. But there’s a massive power imbalance in this conflict that should and does result in greater criticism of Israel. Perhaps that unfair at times, but the chasm between these two parties has expanded to the point where it becomes almost natural to place most of the blame on Israel because Israel is the only party in the conflict that can ACTUALLY choose a different course that will lead to progress.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read the entire thread, may have already been said, here is what will happen:

Protests continue through summer
Chicago Dem convention is a repeat of 68
Riots and violence lead to Trump presidency
Trump is elected and provides just as much if not more support to Israel

Yes if only Biden would listen to the people and change his support for Israel. Before he was elected he promised to hold the Saudis accountable. Now he thinks he can solve the Palestinians issue by making a deal with the Saudis to recognize Israel while not doing anything to address the Palestinians issue. Bet That does not work and leads to more unintentional consequences.

Though he is lot like LBJ in the Ukraine with his slowly introducing weapon systems and his out dated views on Israel.

Why does he need to listen to some "people"? This set of people, sometimes in life we hear "no", said or implied.
It seems that Palestinians and their supporters do not know what the word "no" means. They have been begging for 80 years, and the answer has been "no". Maybe others just don't want what you want. All that is left is for you to war so go for that.

It’s not some people. A recent survey by The Wall Street journal show that 60% of voters do not agree with his handling of the conflict.

The opinion of the people is irrelevant in a heavily militarized, neofeudalist entity. The purpose of the United States is to generate wealth and maintain power for a few hundred people, by any means necessary.

I think these congress people, if they haven't been swayed by the Israel interest group, are certainly affected by groupthink when it comes to Israel.

Watch Speaker Johnson’s interview with Erin Burnett. Hand on a bible, the guy is in an absolute trance regurgitating talking points straight from AIPAC.

Our ejected representatives are bought. It’s a fact, not opinion or conspiracy theory. They’re bought and representing our interests is only a consideration where it doesn’t affect the orders of their true masters. It’s frightening.

No, no, its just a coincidence that both Trump and Biden are reflexively pro-Israel. Its also coincidental that even if you want to vote for the third-party guy, you will get someone reflexively pro-Israel. They differ on pretty much everything else, but coincidentally are aligned on this one thing. See, just coincidences!

Or it could be that 80 years of Palestinian terrorism hasn't endeared the Palestinians to the US?

Just a coincidence.

EXACTLY!

As Americans, we’ve been on the dead wrong side of history many times before. Our judgement, often based on false information, isn’t perfect by any means.

Israel’s conduct over the past 7+ decades is the larger problem in this conflict that has brought us here. Nobody wants to pay your bills any longer. Fend for yourself. What part of that isn’t clear?

Not my bills--Israel's.

US should continue helping Israel as long as it's in our interest to do so. Simple as that.

Do you understand that the determination of what’s in our interest is being made by individuals in the halls of Congress and federal agencies who have clear, massive, and indefensible conflicts of interest, either through their own personal background or their acceptance of lobbyist influence in exchange for $$$?

Do you understand that?

I actually have some experience in how these determinations are made.

There's a kernel of truth to what you are saying, but you're missing far bigger parts of the picture, which creates an ugly (and probably antisemitic) distortion.

You want to know how it really works?

You can label the sushi I had for dinner last night anti-semitic for all I care - the term’s value is essentially meaningless at this point unless I see actions taken that pose an immediate physical threat to someone. Congratulations on helping to render largely irrelevant what should be a serious word.

But sure, regale us with your version of why foreign policy vis-a-vis Israel makes total sense other than through the lens of corrupt lobbying, religious extremism, Cold War bogeymen, and gross conflicts of interest in the discharge of political duties, etc.

1. You missed the point almost entirely.

2. You're too angry to have a discussion. Too bad, you could have learned something about how the sausage is made.

Perhaps another time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read the entire thread, may have already been said, here is what will happen:

Protests continue through summer
Chicago Dem convention is a repeat of 68
Riots and violence lead to Trump presidency
Trump is elected and provides just as much if not more support to Israel

Yes if only Biden would listen to the people and change his support for Israel. Before he was elected he promised to hold the Saudis accountable. Now he thinks he can solve the Palestinians issue by making a deal with the Saudis to recognize Israel while not doing anything to address the Palestinians issue. Bet That does not work and leads to more unintentional consequences.

Though he is lot like LBJ in the Ukraine with his slowly introducing weapon systems and his out dated views on Israel.

Why does he need to listen to some "people"? This set of people, sometimes in life we hear "no", said or implied.
It seems that Palestinians and their supporters do not know what the word "no" means. They have been begging for 80 years, and the answer has been "no". Maybe others just don't want what you want. All that is left is for you to war so go for that.

It’s not some people. A recent survey by The Wall Street journal show that 60% of voters do not agree with his handling of the conflict.

The opinion of the people is irrelevant in a heavily militarized, neofeudalist entity. The purpose of the United States is to generate wealth and maintain power for a few hundred people, by any means necessary.

Conspiracy theory again.

Likely a foreign agent or AI. I believe they are the former. All these antiIsrael posts are from foreign infiltrators who support Hamas and Iran or from people who don’t understand the implications of what they are spewing.

Horseshit. Intentional lies. Sentiment opposed to Israel is widespread and domestic, and you know it.

A little more complicated than that.

Plenty of people oppose HOW Israel is acting in Gaza, but overall MANY more Americans support Israel than the Palestinians.

American sentiment appears to be something like this:

1. We abhor Hamas and terrorism and support Israel's right to defend itself, but think that Israel is going too far in its response.

2. We generally want Israel/Palestinians to find a peaceful long-term resolution. Most

3. We are skeptical of the idea that the US can do much to achieve such a resolution.

4. In general, we sympathize more with Israel than the Palestinians.

Check the polls.

SP

Yeah, I’d agree with that generally, but add that the depth of frustration with Likud snd with Israel’s actions over a VERY long period of time is much higher for many more Americans than you suggest in your summary.

PP here.

That's fair and likely accurate, esp. WRT Likud and the settlers.

OTOH, I think Americans are likely similarly frustrated with the Palestinian side.

Most Americans likely don't believe that Palestinians have made any serious efforts to achieve a long-term, peaceful resolution with Israel. (Just a guess--haven't seen any polling on this issue).

SP

Agree, but I would characterize it as “similarly frustrated”. Criticism of Israel doesn’t and shouldn’t come packaged with a blanket endorsement of Palestinian actions over the past 7+ decades. But there’s a massive power imbalance in this conflict that should and does result in greater criticism of Israel. Perhaps that unfair at times, but the chasm between these two parties has expanded to the point where it becomes almost natural to place most of the blame on Israel because Israel is the only party in the conflict that can ACTUALLY choose a different course that will lead to progress.

PP here again.

Makes sense--I mostly agree. (Consensus--a DCUM first!)

While I'm supportive of Israel's existence, I'd absolutely favor substantial US pressure on Israel to create a peaceful, long-term resolution.

Along with similar incentives/pressure on the Palestinians to accept a compromise that reflects the reality of the last 70+ years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read the entire thread, may have already been said, here is what will happen:

Protests continue through summer
Chicago Dem convention is a repeat of 68
Riots and violence lead to Trump presidency
Trump is elected and provides just as much if not more support to Israel

Yes if only Biden would listen to the people and change his support for Israel. Before he was elected he promised to hold the Saudis accountable. Now he thinks he can solve the Palestinians issue by making a deal with the Saudis to recognize Israel while not doing anything to address the Palestinians issue. Bet That does not work and leads to more unintentional consequences.

Though he is lot like LBJ in the Ukraine with his slowly introducing weapon systems and his out dated views on Israel.

Why does he need to listen to some "people"? This set of people, sometimes in life we hear "no", said or implied.
It seems that Palestinians and their supporters do not know what the word "no" means. They have been begging for 80 years, and the answer has been "no". Maybe others just don't want what you want. All that is left is for you to war so go for that.

It’s not some people. A recent survey by The Wall Street journal show that 60% of voters do not agree with his handling of the conflict.

The opinion of the people is irrelevant in a heavily militarized, neofeudalist entity. The purpose of the United States is to generate wealth and maintain power for a few hundred people, by any means necessary.

Conspiracy theory again.

Likely a foreign agent or AI. I believe they are the former. All these antiIsrael posts are from foreign infiltrators who support Hamas and Iran or from people who don’t understand the implications of what they are spewing.

Horseshit. Intentional lies. Sentiment opposed to Israel is widespread and domestic, and you know it.

A little more complicated than that.

Plenty of people oppose HOW Israel is acting in Gaza, but overall MANY more Americans support Israel than the Palestinians.

American sentiment appears to be something like this:

1. We abhor Hamas and terrorism and support Israel's right to defend itself, but think that Israel is going too far in its response.

2. We generally want Israel/Palestinians to find a peaceful long-term resolution. Most

3. We are skeptical of the idea that the US can do much to achieve such a resolution.

4. In general, we sympathize more with Israel than the Palestinians.

Check the polls.

SP

Yeah, I’d agree with that generally, but add that the depth of frustration with Likud snd with Israel’s actions over a VERY long period of time is much higher for many more Americans than you suggest in your summary.

PP here.

That's fair and likely accurate, esp. WRT Likud and the settlers.

OTOH, I think Americans are likely similarly frustrated with the Palestinian side.

Most Americans likely don't believe that Palestinians have made any serious efforts to achieve a long-term, peaceful resolution with Israel. (Just a guess--haven't seen any polling on this issue).

SP

Agree, but I would characterize it as “similarly frustrated”. Criticism of Israel doesn’t and shouldn’t come packaged with a blanket endorsement of Palestinian actions over the past 7+ decades. But there’s a massive power imbalance in this conflict that should and does result in greater criticism of Israel. Perhaps that unfair at times, but the chasm between these two parties has expanded to the point where it becomes almost natural to place most of the blame on Israel because Israel is the only party in the conflict that can ACTUALLY choose a different course that will lead to progress.

PP here again.

Makes sense--I mostly agree. (Consensus--a DCUM first!)

While I'm supportive of Israel's existence, I'd absolutely favor substantial US pressure on Israel to create a peaceful, long-term resolution.

Along with similar incentives/pressure on the Palestinians to accept a compromise that reflects the reality of the last 70+ years.

Yes, we’re essentially at or near 100%, so anything further is just cumulative at this point. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read the entire thread, may have already been said, here is what will happen:

Protests continue through summer
Chicago Dem convention is a repeat of 68
Riots and violence lead to Trump presidency
Trump is elected and provides just as much if not more support to Israel

Yes if only Biden would listen to the people and change his support for Israel. Before he was elected he promised to hold the Saudis accountable. Now he thinks he can solve the Palestinians issue by making a deal with the Saudis to recognize Israel while not doing anything to address the Palestinians issue. Bet That does not work and leads to more unintentional consequences.

Though he is lot like LBJ in the Ukraine with his slowly introducing weapon systems and his out dated views on Israel.

Why does he need to listen to some "people"? This set of people, sometimes in life we hear "no", said or implied.
It seems that Palestinians and their supporters do not know what the word "no" means. They have been begging for 80 years, and the answer has been "no". Maybe others just don't want what you want. All that is left is for you to war so go for that.

It’s not some people. A recent survey by The Wall Street journal show that 60% of voters do not agree with his handling of the conflict.

The opinion of the people is irrelevant in a heavily militarized, neofeudalist entity. The purpose of the United States is to generate wealth and maintain power for a few hundred people, by any means necessary.

I think these congress people, if they haven't been swayed by the Israel interest group, are certainly affected by groupthink when it comes to Israel.

Watch Speaker Johnson’s interview with Erin Burnett. Hand on a bible, the guy is in an absolute trance regurgitating talking points straight from AIPAC.

Our ejected representatives are bought. It’s a fact, not opinion or conspiracy theory. They’re bought and representing our interests is only a consideration where it doesn’t affect the orders of their true masters. It’s frightening.

No, no, its just a coincidence that both Trump and Biden are reflexively pro-Israel. Its also coincidental that even if you want to vote for the third-party guy, you will get someone reflexively pro-Israel. They differ on pretty much everything else, but coincidentally are aligned on this one thing. See, just coincidences!

Or it could be that 80 years of Palestinian terrorism hasn't endeared the Palestinians to the US?

Just a coincidence.

EXACTLY!

As Americans, we’ve been on the dead wrong side of history many times before. Our judgement, often based on false information, isn’t perfect by any means.

Israel’s conduct over the past 7+ decades is the larger problem in this conflict that has brought us here. Nobody wants to pay your bills any longer. Fend for yourself. What part of that isn’t clear?

Not my bills--Israel's.

US should continue helping Israel as long as it's in our interest to do so. Simple as that.

It has never been in the US interest to help Israel. If one were object, Iran offers a lot more vs Israel with less moral hypocrisy. Iran has oil, oppose the Saudis(who are responsible for 9/11), controls the straits of hormuz, better strategic location, would allow US military bases, etc, etc.

Iran's not an option, for a variety of reasons (most of which have nothing to do with Israel).

The issue is strategic value of Israel vs. realistic alternatives. Also, potential cost of a diminished relationship with Israel, which is quite high.

Like what? Please give concrete examples of Israel’s vale to the US. Do not say intelligence. Do not say ally because it is a protectorate of the US. No one in the intelligence field believes anything Israel puts out there. It is self serving to the point of being useless.

Israel is of no value strategically, Israel does not allow the US to use it airbase or air space, it is in an unimportant part of the world, has no resources, can not be relied on militarily or politically. What is so vital to US interest?

Sorry, too many rules for me to follow. You're very bossy.

Consider the key points:

1. The question is Israel vs. realistic alternatives. What would sundering the relationship with Israel get the US?

2. The cost of diminishing/sundering the relationship with Israel. Think about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read the entire thread, may have already been said, here is what will happen:

Protests continue through summer
Chicago Dem convention is a repeat of 68
Riots and violence lead to Trump presidency
Trump is elected and provides just as much if not more support to Israel

Yes if only Biden would listen to the people and change his support for Israel. Before he was elected he promised to hold the Saudis accountable. Now he thinks he can solve the Palestinians issue by making a deal with the Saudis to recognize Israel while not doing anything to address the Palestinians issue. Bet That does not work and leads to more unintentional consequences.

Though he is lot like LBJ in the Ukraine with his slowly introducing weapon systems and his out dated views on Israel.

Why does he need to listen to some "people"? This set of people, sometimes in life we hear "no", said or implied.
It seems that Palestinians and their supporters do not know what the word "no" means. They have been begging for 80 years, and the answer has been "no". Maybe others just don't want what you want. All that is left is for you to war so go for that.

It’s not some people. A recent survey by The Wall Street journal show that 60% of voters do not agree with his handling of the conflict.

The opinion of the people is irrelevant in a heavily militarized, neofeudalist entity. The purpose of the United States is to generate wealth and maintain power for a few hundred people, by any means necessary.

Conspiracy theory again.

Likely a foreign agent or AI. I believe they are the former. All these antiIsrael posts are from foreign infiltrators who support Hamas and Iran or from people who don’t understand the implications of what they are spewing.

Horseshit. Intentional lies. Sentiment opposed to Israel is widespread and domestic, and you know it.

A little more complicated than that.

Plenty of people oppose HOW Israel is acting in Gaza, but overall MANY more Americans support Israel than the Palestinians.

American sentiment appears to be something like this:

1. We abhor Hamas and terrorism and support Israel's right to defend itself, but think that Israel is going too far in its response.

2. We generally want Israel/Palestinians to find a peaceful long-term resolution. Most

3. We are skeptical of the idea that the US can do much to achieve such a resolution.

4. In general, we sympathize more with Israel than the Palestinians.

Check the polls.

SP

Yeah, I’d agree with that generally, but add that the depth of frustration with Likud snd with Israel’s actions over a VERY long period of time is much higher for many more Americans than you suggest in your summary.

PP here.

That's fair and likely accurate, esp. WRT Likud and the settlers.

OTOH, I think Americans are likely similarly frustrated with the Palestinian side.

Most Americans likely don't believe that Palestinians have made any serious efforts to achieve a long-term, peaceful resolution with Israel. (Just a guess--haven't seen any polling on this issue).

SP

Agree, but I would characterize it as “similarly frustrated”. Criticism of Israel doesn’t and shouldn’t come packaged with a blanket endorsement of Palestinian actions over the past 7+ decades. But there’s a massive power imbalance in this conflict that should and does result in greater criticism of Israel. Perhaps that unfair at times, but the chasm between these two parties has expanded to the point where it becomes almost natural to place most of the blame on Israel because Israel is the only party in the conflict that can ACTUALLY choose a different course that will lead to progress.

PP here again.

Makes sense--I mostly agree. (Consensus--a DCUM first!)

While I'm supportive of Israel's existence, I'd absolutely favor substantial US pressure on Israel to create a peaceful, long-term resolution.

Along with similar incentives/pressure on the Palestinians to accept a compromise that reflects the reality of the last 70+ years.

Yes, we’re essentially at or near 100%, so anything further is just cumulative at this point. Thank you.

Thank you!

Now I have to sign off for the day--it can only go downhill from here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read the entire thread, may have already been said, here is what will happen:

Protests continue through summer
Chicago Dem convention is a repeat of 68
Riots and violence lead to Trump presidency
Trump is elected and provides just as much if not more support to Israel

Yes if only Biden would listen to the people and change his support for Israel. Before he was elected he promised to hold the Saudis accountable. Now he thinks he can solve the Palestinians issue by making a deal with the Saudis to recognize Israel while not doing anything to address the Palestinians issue. Bet That does not work and leads to more unintentional consequences.

Though he is lot like LBJ in the Ukraine with his slowly introducing weapon systems and his out dated views on Israel.

Why does he need to listen to some "people"? This set of people, sometimes in life we hear "no", said or implied.
It seems that Palestinians and their supporters do not know what the word "no" means. They have been begging for 80 years, and the answer has been "no". Maybe others just don't want what you want. All that is left is for you to war so go for that.

It’s not some people. A recent survey by The Wall Street journal show that 60% of voters do not agree with his handling of the conflict.

The opinion of the people is irrelevant in a heavily militarized, neofeudalist entity. The purpose of the United States is to generate wealth and maintain power for a few hundred people, by any means necessary.

Conspiracy theory again.

Likely a foreign agent or AI. I believe they are the former. All these antiIsrael posts are from foreign infiltrators who support Hamas and Iran or from people who don’t understand the implications of what they are spewing.

Horseshit. Intentional lies. Sentiment opposed to Israel is widespread and domestic, and you know it.

A little more complicated than that.

Plenty of people oppose HOW Israel is acting in Gaza, but overall MANY more Americans support Israel than the Palestinians.

American sentiment appears to be something like this:

1. We abhor Hamas and terrorism and support Israel's right to defend itself, but think that Israel is going too far in its response.

2. We generally want Israel/Palestinians to find a peaceful long-term resolution. Most

3. We are skeptical of the idea that the US can do much to achieve such a resolution.

4. In general, we sympathize more with Israel than the Palestinians.

Check the polls.

SP

Yeah, I’d agree with that generally, but add that the depth of frustration with Likud snd with Israel’s actions over a VERY long period of time is much higher for many more Americans than you suggest in your summary.

PP here.

That's fair and likely accurate, esp. WRT Likud and the settlers.

OTOH, I think Americans are likely similarly frustrated with the Palestinian side.

Most Americans likely don't believe that Palestinians have made any serious efforts to achieve a long-term, peaceful resolution with Israel. (Just a guess--haven't seen any polling on this issue).

SP

Agree, but I would characterize it as “similarly frustrated”. Criticism of Israel doesn’t and shouldn’t come packaged with a blanket endorsement of Palestinian actions over the past 7+ decades. But there’s a massive power imbalance in this conflict that should and does result in greater criticism of Israel. Perhaps that unfair at times, but the chasm between these two parties has expanded to the point where it becomes almost natural to place most of the blame on Israel because Israel is the only party in the conflict that can ACTUALLY choose a different course that will lead to progress.

PP here again.

Makes sense--I mostly agree. (Consensus--a DCUM first!)

While I'm supportive of Israel's existence, I'd absolutely favor substantial US pressure on Israel to create a peaceful, long-term resolution.

Along with similar incentives/pressure on the Palestinians to accept a compromise that reflects the reality of the last 70+ years.

Meanwhile, we're feeding the Israeli war machine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read the entire thread, may have already been said, here is what will happen:

Protests continue through summer
Chicago Dem convention is a repeat of 68
Riots and violence lead to Trump presidency
Trump is elected and provides just as much if not more support to Israel

Yes if only Biden would listen to the people and change his support for Israel. Before he was elected he promised to hold the Saudis accountable. Now he thinks he can solve the Palestinians issue by making a deal with the Saudis to recognize Israel while not doing anything to address the Palestinians issue. Bet That does not work and leads to more unintentional consequences.

Though he is lot like LBJ in the Ukraine with his slowly introducing weapon systems and his out dated views on Israel.

Why does he need to listen to some "people"? This set of people, sometimes in life we hear "no", said or implied.
It seems that Palestinians and their supporters do not know what the word "no" means. They have been begging for 80 years, and the answer has been "no". Maybe others just don't want what you want. All that is left is for you to war so go for that.

It’s not some people. A recent survey by The Wall Street journal show that 60% of voters do not agree with his handling of the conflict.

The opinion of the people is irrelevant in a heavily militarized, neofeudalist entity. The purpose of the United States is to generate wealth and maintain power for a few hundred people, by any means necessary.

Conspiracy theory again.

Likely a foreign agent or AI. I believe they are the former. All these antiIsrael posts are from foreign infiltrators who support Hamas and Iran or from people who don’t understand the implications of what they are spewing.

Or maybe news from democratic countries or the International Court of Justice.

The extent of manipulating reality so that EVERYONE other than authoritarians, racists, religious fanatics who believe in end times prophecies, fellow tribesmen who believe - like you - that you are “chosen” above others, bought politicians, and war criminals are all opposed to the actions of “your side” … yikes!

And you with your infinite wisdom is above the fray.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read the entire thread, may have already been said, here is what will happen:

Protests continue through summer
Chicago Dem convention is a repeat of 68
Riots and violence lead to Trump presidency
Trump is elected and provides just as much if not more support to Israel

Yes if only Biden would listen to the people and change his support for Israel. Before he was elected he promised to hold the Saudis accountable. Now he thinks he can solve the Palestinians issue by making a deal with the Saudis to recognize Israel while not doing anything to address the Palestinians issue. Bet That does not work and leads to more unintentional consequences.

Though he is lot like LBJ in the Ukraine with his slowly introducing weapon systems and his out dated views on Israel.

Why does he need to listen to some "people"? This set of people, sometimes in life we hear "no", said or implied.
It seems that Palestinians and their supporters do not know what the word "no" means. They have been begging for 80 years, and the answer has been "no". Maybe others just don't want what you want. All that is left is for you to war so go for that.

It’s not some people. A recent survey by The Wall Street journal show that 60% of voters do not agree with his handling of the conflict.

The opinion of the people is irrelevant in a heavily militarized, neofeudalist entity. The purpose of the United States is to generate wealth and maintain power for a few hundred people, by any means necessary.

Conspiracy theory again.

Likely a foreign agent or AI. I believe they are the former. All these antiIsrael posts are from foreign infiltrators who support Hamas and Iran or from people who don’t understand the implications of what they are spewing.

Or maybe news from democratic countries or the International Court of Justice.

The extent of manipulating reality so that EVERYONE other than authoritarians, racists, religious fanatics who believe in end times prophecies, fellow tribesmen who believe - like you - that you are “chosen” above others, bought politicians, and war criminals are all opposed to the actions of “your side” … yikes!

And you with your infinite wisdom is above the fray.

It says a lot about you that you think, after excluding authoritarians, racists, religious fanatics, people with a personal conflict of interest, corrupt politicians, and war criminals, that only one person is left on the "other side". Double yikes!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Going forward, I’m going to assume every person wearing a mask is Hamas.

In a Venn diagram of who wears masks and for what reason, there is a lot of overlay. Sheeple that think they are saving the world one mask at a time.

Wait, I have vivid memories of the MAGA idiots who didn't want to wear a mask because of "muh freedumb." I bet you were one of them.

Obviously. And as you can see I am alive and kicking and still enjoying my freedom.

And still a proud idiot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read the entire thread, may have already been said, here is what will happen:

Protests continue through summer
Chicago Dem convention is a repeat of 68
Riots and violence lead to Trump presidency
Trump is elected and provides just as much if not more support to Israel

Yes if only Biden would listen to the people and change his support for Israel. Before he was elected he promised to hold the Saudis accountable. Now he thinks he can solve the Palestinians issue by making a deal with the Saudis to recognize Israel while not doing anything to address the Palestinians issue. Bet That does not work and leads to more unintentional consequences.

Though he is lot like LBJ in the Ukraine with his slowly introducing weapon systems and his out dated views on Israel.

Why does he need to listen to some "people"? This set of people, sometimes in life we hear "no", said or implied.
It seems that Palestinians and their supporters do not know what the word "no" means. They have been begging for 80 years, and the answer has been "no". Maybe others just don't want what you want. All that is left is for you to war so go for that.

It’s not some people. A recent survey by The Wall Street journal show that 60% of voters do not agree with his handling of the conflict.

The opinion of the people is irrelevant in a heavily militarized, neofeudalist entity. The purpose of the United States is to generate wealth and maintain power for a few hundred people, by any means necessary.

I think these congress people, if they haven't been swayed by the Israel interest group, are certainly affected by groupthink when it comes to Israel.

Watch Speaker Johnson’s interview with Erin Burnett. Hand on a bible, the guy is in an absolute trance regurgitating talking points straight from AIPAC.

Our ejected representatives are bought. It’s a fact, not opinion or conspiracy theory. They’re bought and representing our interests is only a consideration where it doesn’t affect the orders of their true masters. It’s frightening.

No, no, its just a coincidence that both Trump and Biden are reflexively pro-Israel. Its also coincidental that even if you want to vote for the third-party guy, you will get someone reflexively pro-Israel. They differ on pretty much everything else, but coincidentally are aligned on this one thing. See, just coincidences!

Or it could be that 80 years of Palestinian terrorism hasn't endeared the Palestinians to the US?

Just a coincidence.

EXACTLY!

As Americans, we’ve been on the dead wrong side of history many times before. Our judgement, often based on false information, isn’t perfect by any means.

Israel’s conduct over the past 7+ decades is the larger problem in this conflict that has brought us here. Nobody wants to pay your bills any longer. Fend for yourself. What part of that isn’t clear?

Not my bills--Israel's.

US should continue helping Israel as long as it's in our interest to do so. Simple as that.

It has never been in the US interest to help Israel. If one were object, Iran offers a lot more vs Israel with less moral hypocrisy. Iran has oil, oppose the Saudis(who are responsible for 9/11), controls the straits of hormuz, better strategic location, would allow US military bases, etc, etc.

The US overthrew Iran's democracy. Thank our lovely western values for such a travesty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read the entire thread, may have already been said, here is what will happen:

Protests continue through summer
Chicago Dem convention is a repeat of 68
Riots and violence lead to Trump presidency
Trump is elected and provides just as much if not more support to Israel

Yes if only Biden would listen to the people and change his support for Israel. Before he was elected he promised to hold the Saudis accountable. Now he thinks he can solve the Palestinians issue by making a deal with the Saudis to recognize Israel while not doing anything to address the Palestinians issue. Bet That does not work and leads to more unintentional consequences.

Though he is lot like LBJ in the Ukraine with his slowly introducing weapon systems and his out dated views on Israel.

Why does he need to listen to some "people"? This set of people, sometimes in life we hear "no", said or implied.
It seems that Palestinians and their supporters do not know what the word "no" means. They have been begging for 80 years, and the answer has been "no". Maybe others just don't want what you want. All that is left is for you to war so go for that.

It’s not some people. A recent survey by The Wall Street journal show that 60% of voters do not agree with his handling of the conflict.

The opinion of the people is irrelevant in a heavily militarized, neofeudalist entity. The purpose of the United States is to generate wealth and maintain power for a few hundred people, by any means necessary.

Conspiracy theory again.

Likely a foreign agent or AI. I believe they are the former. All these antiIsrael posts are from foreign infiltrators who support Hamas and Iran or from people who don’t understand the implications of what they are spewing.

Or maybe news from democratic countries or the International Court of Justice.

The extent of manipulating reality so that EVERYONE other than authoritarians, racists, religious fanatics who believe in end times prophecies, fellow tribesmen who believe - like you - that you are “chosen” above others, bought politicians, and war criminals are all opposed to the actions of “your side” … yikes!

And you with your infinite wisdom is above the fray.

It says a lot about you that you think, after excluding authoritarians, racists, religious fanatics, people with a personal conflict of interest, corrupt politicians, and war criminals, that only one person is left on the "other side". Double yikes!

"It says a lot about you" and "Yikes". That way of insulting is not very original. It gets boring. You don't know what my side is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven’t read the entire thread, may have already been said, here is what will happen:

Protests continue through summer
Chicago Dem convention is a repeat of 68
Riots and violence lead to Trump presidency
Trump is elected and provides just as much if not more support to Israel

Yes if only Biden would listen to the people and change his support for Israel. Before he was elected he promised to hold the Saudis accountable. Now he thinks he can solve the Palestinians issue by making a deal with the Saudis to recognize Israel while not doing anything to address the Palestinians issue. Bet That does not work and leads to more unintentional consequences.

Though he is lot like LBJ in the Ukraine with his slowly introducing weapon systems and his out dated views on Israel.

Why does he need to listen to some "people"? This set of people, sometimes in life we hear "no", said or implied.
It seems that Palestinians and their supporters do not know what the word "no" means. They have been begging for 80 years, and the answer has been "no". Maybe others just don't want what you want. All that is left is for you to war so go for that.

It’s not some people. A recent survey by The Wall Street journal show that 60% of voters do not agree with his handling of the conflict.

The opinion of the people is irrelevant in a heavily militarized, neofeudalist entity. The purpose of the United States is to generate wealth and maintain power for a few hundred people, by any means necessary.

I think these congress people, if they haven't been swayed by the Israel interest group, are certainly affected by groupthink when it comes to Israel.

Watch Speaker Johnson’s interview with Erin Burnett. Hand on a bible, the guy is in an absolute trance regurgitating talking points straight from AIPAC.

Our ejected representatives are bought. It’s a fact, not opinion or conspiracy theory. They’re bought and representing our interests is only a consideration where it doesn’t affect the orders of their true masters. It’s frightening.

No, no, its just a coincidence that both Trump and Biden are reflexively pro-Israel. Its also coincidental that even if you want to vote for the third-party guy, you will get someone reflexively pro-Israel. They differ on pretty much everything else, but coincidentally are aligned on this one thing. See, just coincidences!

Or it could be that 80 years of Palestinian terrorism hasn't endeared the Palestinians to the US?

Just a coincidence.

EXACTLY!

As Americans, we’ve been on the dead wrong side of history many times before. Our judgement, often based on false information, isn’t perfect by any means.

Israel’s conduct over the past 7+ decades is the larger problem in this conflict that has brought us here. Nobody wants to pay your bills any longer. Fend for yourself. What part of that isn’t clear?

Not my bills--Israel's.

US should continue helping Israel as long as it's in our interest to do so. Simple as that.

It has never been in the US interest to help Israel. If one were object, Iran offers a lot more vs Israel with less moral hypocrisy. Iran has oil, oppose the Saudis(who are responsible for 9/11), controls the straits of hormuz, better strategic location, would allow US military bases, etc, etc.

Iran's not an option, for a variety of reasons (most of which have nothing to do with Israel).

The issue is strategic value of Israel vs. realistic alternatives. Also, potential cost of a diminished relationship with Israel, which is quite high.

Like what? Please give concrete examples of Israel’s vale to the US. Do not say intelligence. Do not say ally because it is a protectorate of the US. No one in the intelligence field believes anything Israel puts out there. It is self serving to the point of being useless.

Israel is of no value strategically, Israel does not allow the US to use it airbase or air space, it is in an unimportant part of the world, has no resources, can not be relied on militarily or politically. What is so vital to US interest?

Very simple. Israel does not terrorize and kidnap and attack innocent US civilians. Israel promotes democratic values more closely aligned with modern democracies than Iran.