How to heal relationship between schools and families.

[Anonymous]

It’s easy not to trust the special education teacher when they are recommending things for your child that the department of education has said is not appropriate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, this will get flamed but I also think schools/counties/parents need to differentiate between special needs students who, with the right help and interventions, can become functioning members of society and students who, no matter what anyone does, will never hold any sort of job or live alone period. I'm not saying those students are not also deserving of help and support, but trying to paint both kinds of students with the same brush is not helpful to either group.

My kid will hopefully hold a job but will probably never live independently. He deserves and needs as many resources as he can get. Maybe we should separate out the kids who are special needs light and their parents have a lot of money. They take up a lions share of time and resources at my kids school. They are always complaining and having meetings.

I feel like this would be one of the easiest places to start limiting entitlements. Allow the school team to decline to have yet another periodic IEP review after a certain yearly quota, or to cut off a meeting after a certain number of hours (not continue it, end it). Somebody posted here once that they made their team have at least 5 IEP meetings per year and I was aghast. One family getting five 2-hour IEP meetings, or three 3-hour IEP meetings, or whatever, where 15-20 other kids miss hours of speech or reading intervention or whatever while the staff sit around the table listening to goals being nitpicked in ways that will have no functional impact, is exactly what "benefits do not outweigh the costs" refers to. I had to sit through 12 combined hours of meetings once for a child who didn't even attend the school and whose family had no intention of sending them. During that time, every child seen by the gen ed teacher, the special ed teacher, the SLP, and the OT missed their services. These are the types of cases that drive teachers out.

I remember needing to have a second IEP meeting pretty quickly once I realized the “ school team” didn’t put any of my child’s 504 accommodations into her IEP. Absolutely zero of them, but I’m sure that was an innocent oversight and I guess that IEP meeting was unnecessary. After all they just want what’s best for the child right.

This is kinda on you. You had a draft of the iep before the meeting and never looked at it? Also, I’m a sped teacher and I have no access to any 504 paperwork. So I would have no idea what would have been on a 504.

I've had this happen to me before. I'm the one who said I handled it by email. First off, I wrote them before the meeting saying I thought it was good to stay as it was but wanted to hear from the teachers. When I arrived, I was told they wanted to dismantle the document completely out of the blue. The comments from teachers had another issue listed so a clarification was made to one comment already in the original document. That was not updated after the meeting. So I was blindsighted and they made no updates after the meeting as they said they would. I would say the same goes for the school. If they want to blindside the student and parent by suggesting sweeping changes, they should notify the family before hand with a reason, not just present it at the meeting. And secondly they should take better notes and pass them around at the end of the meeting or soon after.

Also if you have no access to any paperwork, why are teachers like you saying that you have so much paperwork? From what? And why wouldn't you have a copy of the IEP or 504? It makes no sense.

Why would a special education teacher have copies of the 504? It’s a completely different document and does not provide any specialized instruction. So no I don’t have copies of any 504 documents for any kids. That’s not part of my job. I have tons of IEPs though since that’s my job

[Anonymous]

You are just wrong on 504s. They don't provide instruction on how to instruct or extra instruction but they certainly detail disabilities and how to make things better for the student which often includes work from the teacher. Also what does this have to do with anything? The person was talking about an IEP.

Questions like why would a special education teacher have a 504 document (I guess this is a student with an IEP and a 504) is an example of why this system is so broken acting like this is such a stupid idea. It makes perfect sense why a special ed teacher would have all the documents available on the child's disability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, this will get flamed but I also think schools/counties/parents need to differentiate between special needs students who, with the right help and interventions, can become functioning members of society and students who, no matter what anyone does, will never hold any sort of job or live alone period. I'm not saying those students are not also deserving of help and support, but trying to paint both kinds of students with the same brush is not helpful to either group.

My kid will hopefully hold a job but will probably never live independently. He deserves and needs as many resources as he can get. Maybe we should separate out the kids who are special needs light and their parents have a lot of money. They take up a lions share of time and resources at my kids school. They are always complaining and having meetings.

I feel like this would be one of the easiest places to start limiting entitlements. Allow the school team to decline to have yet another periodic IEP review after a certain yearly quota, or to cut off a meeting after a certain number of hours (not continue it, end it). Somebody posted here once that they made their team have at least 5 IEP meetings per year and I was aghast. One family getting five 2-hour IEP meetings, or three 3-hour IEP meetings, or whatever, where 15-20 other kids miss hours of speech or reading intervention or whatever while the staff sit around the table listening to goals being nitpicked in ways that will have no functional impact, is exactly what "benefits do not outweigh the costs" refers to. I had to sit through 12 combined hours of meetings once for a child who didn't even attend the school and whose family had no intention of sending them. During that time, every child seen by the gen ed teacher, the special ed teacher, the SLP, and the OT missed their services. These are the types of cases that drive teachers out.

I remember needing to have a second IEP meeting pretty quickly once I realized the “ school team” didn’t put any of my child’s 504 accommodations into her IEP. Absolutely zero of them, but I’m sure that was an innocent oversight and I guess that IEP meeting was unnecessary. After all they just want what’s best for the child right.

This is kinda on you. You had a draft of the iep before the meeting and never looked at it? Also, I’m a sped teacher and I have no access to any 504 paperwork. So I would have no idea what would have been on a 504.

It is the obligation of the school-based IEP team to gather all available data about the child prior to the IEP meeting and share such documents with the parents in compliance with the 5day rule.

While you, individual sped teacher may not have access to the 504 plan, the person who is in charge of managing the IEP meeting certainly does and it is a serious error on the part if the IEP team manager not to include the 504 accommodations in the 504 plan.

Also, just because a student has an IEP doesn't mean the don't also qualify for a 504 - having an IEP doesn't extinguish 504 rights, but the IEP team is supposed to incorporate those accommodations on the IEP document so everything is in one place.

Please be educated about the whole system and the team obligations before you blame and shame parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, this will get flamed but I also think schools/counties/parents need to differentiate between special needs students who, with the right help and interventions, can become functioning members of society and students who, no matter what anyone does, will never hold any sort of job or live alone period. I'm not saying those students are not also deserving of help and support, but trying to paint both kinds of students with the same brush is not helpful to either group.

My kid will hopefully hold a job but will probably never live independently. He deserves and needs as many resources as he can get. Maybe we should separate out the kids who are special needs light and their parents have a lot of money. They take up a lions share of time and resources at my kids school. They are always complaining and having meetings.

I feel like this would be one of the easiest places to start limiting entitlements. Allow the school team to decline to have yet another periodic IEP review after a certain yearly quota, or to cut off a meeting after a certain number of hours (not continue it, end it). Somebody posted here once that they made their team have at least 5 IEP meetings per year and I was aghast. One family getting five 2-hour IEP meetings, or three 3-hour IEP meetings, or whatever, where 15-20 other kids miss hours of speech or reading intervention or whatever while the staff sit around the table listening to goals being nitpicked in ways that will have no functional impact, is exactly what "benefits do not outweigh the costs" refers to. I had to sit through 12 combined hours of meetings once for a child who didn't even attend the school and whose family had no intention of sending them. During that time, every child seen by the gen ed teacher, the special ed teacher, the SLP, and the OT missed their services. These are the types of cases that drive teachers out.

I remember needing to have a second IEP meeting pretty quickly once I realized the “ school team” didn’t put any of my child’s 504 accommodations into her IEP. Absolutely zero of them, but I’m sure that was an innocent oversight and I guess that IEP meeting was unnecessary. After all they just want what’s best for the child right.

This is kinda on you. You had a draft of the iep before the meeting and never looked at it? Also, I’m a sped teacher and I have no access to any 504 paperwork. So I would have no idea what would have been on a 504.

You know you’re right, I expected some type of competency from a system to find and evaluate kids with disabilities and then provide appropriate services and accommodations, that was absolutely my fault. I hope others don’t do the same and have an advocate or attorney from the very beginning.

I expected not just competency but that people in the educational system would know, understand and comply with their legal obligations in the educational field.

I have found shocking ignorance at all levels - school psychologists who do not know the legal test for determining eligibility, teachers and administrators at all levels who do not understand that the IEP or 504 are legal documents that must be complied with and aren't up for re-negotiating outside the IEP or 504 team.

So far, IME, the associate superintendent for special education understands MCPS's legal obligations and the potential liability of being out of compliance, but one shouldn't really ever have to write the ASSE to bring the school into legal compliance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, this will get flamed but I also think schools/counties/parents need to differentiate between special needs students who, with the right help and interventions, can become functioning members of society and students who, no matter what anyone does, will never hold any sort of job or live alone period. I'm not saying those students are not also deserving of help and support, but trying to paint both kinds of students with the same brush is not helpful to either group.

My kid will hopefully hold a job but will probably never live independently. He deserves and needs as many resources as he can get. Maybe we should separate out the kids who are special needs light and their parents have a lot of money. They take up a lions share of time and resources at my kids school. They are always complaining and having meetings.

I feel like this would be one of the easiest places to start limiting entitlements. Allow the school team to decline to have yet another periodic IEP review after a certain yearly quota, or to cut off a meeting after a certain number of hours (not continue it, end it). Somebody posted here once that they made their team have at least 5 IEP meetings per year and I was aghast. One family getting five 2-hour IEP meetings, or three 3-hour IEP meetings, or whatever, where 15-20 other kids miss hours of speech or reading intervention or whatever while the staff sit around the table listening to goals being nitpicked in ways that will have no functional impact, is exactly what "benefits do not outweigh the costs" refers to. I had to sit through 12 combined hours of meetings once for a child who didn't even attend the school and whose family had no intention of sending them. During that time, every child seen by the gen ed teacher, the special ed teacher, the SLP, and the OT missed their services. These are the types of cases that drive teachers out.

I remember needing to have a second IEP meeting pretty quickly once I realized the “ school team” didn’t put any of my child’s 504 accommodations into her IEP. Absolutely zero of them, but I’m sure that was an innocent oversight and I guess that IEP meeting was unnecessary. After all they just want what’s best for the child right.

This is kinda on you. You had a draft of the iep before the meeting and never looked at it? Also, I’m a sped teacher and I have no access to any 504 paperwork. So I would have no idea what would have been on a 504.

You know you’re right, I expected some type of competency from a system to find and evaluate kids with disabilities and then provide appropriate services and accommodations, that was absolutely my fault. I hope others don’t do the same and have an advocate or attorney from the very beginning.

I expected not just competency but that people in the educational system would know, understand and comply with their legal obligations in the educational field.

I have found shocking ignorance at all levels - school psychologists who do not know the legal test for determining eligibility, teachers and administrators at all levels who do not understand that the IEP or 504 are legal documents that must be complied with and aren't up for re-negotiating outside the IEP or 504 team.

So far, IME, the associate superintendent for special education understands MCPS's legal obligations and the potential liability of being out of compliance, but one shouldn't really ever have to write the ASSE to bring the school into legal compliance.

There is not enough money in the budget for them to fully comply and to offer any kind of education to students without IEPs. They have to triage, but that triaging is illegal. The administrators are in an impossible no win position

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, this will get flamed but I also think schools/counties/parents need to differentiate between special needs students who, with the right help and interventions, can become functioning members of society and students who, no matter what anyone does, will never hold any sort of job or live alone period. I'm not saying those students are not also deserving of help and support, but trying to paint both kinds of students with the same brush is not helpful to either group.

My kid will hopefully hold a job but will probably never live independently. He deserves and needs as many resources as he can get. Maybe we should separate out the kids who are special needs light and their parents have a lot of money. They take up a lions share of time and resources at my kids school. They are always complaining and having meetings.

I feel like this would be one of the easiest places to start limiting entitlements. Allow the school team to decline to have yet another periodic IEP review after a certain yearly quota, or to cut off a meeting after a certain number of hours (not continue it, end it). Somebody posted here once that they made their team have at least 5 IEP meetings per year and I was aghast. One family getting five 2-hour IEP meetings, or three 3-hour IEP meetings, or whatever, where 15-20 other kids miss hours of speech or reading intervention or whatever while the staff sit around the table listening to goals being nitpicked in ways that will have no functional impact, is exactly what "benefits do not outweigh the costs" refers to. I had to sit through 12 combined hours of meetings once for a child who didn't even attend the school and whose family had no intention of sending them. During that time, every child seen by the gen ed teacher, the special ed teacher, the SLP, and the OT missed their services. These are the types of cases that drive teachers out.

I remember needing to have a second IEP meeting pretty quickly once I realized the “ school team” didn’t put any of my child’s 504 accommodations into her IEP. Absolutely zero of them, but I’m sure that was an innocent oversight and I guess that IEP meeting was unnecessary. After all they just want what’s best for the child right.

This is kinda on you. You had a draft of the iep before the meeting and never looked at it? Also, I’m a sped teacher and I have no access to any 504 paperwork. So I would have no idea what would have been on a 504.

It is the obligation of the school-based IEP team to gather all available data about the child prior to the IEP meeting and share such documents with the parents in compliance with the 5day rule.

While you, individual sped teacher may not have access to the 504 plan, the person who is in charge of managing the IEP meeting certainly does and it is a serious error on the part if the IEP team manager not to include the 504 accommodations in the 504 plan.

Also, just because a student has an IEP doesn't mean the don't also qualify for a 504 - having an IEP doesn't extinguish 504 rights, but the IEP team is supposed to incorporate those accommodations on the IEP document so everything is in one place.

Please be educated about the whole system and the team obligations before you blame and shame parents.

Blame and shame her for not reading the document before the meeting AND not seeing that they weren’t incorporating it at the meeting?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, this will get flamed but I also think schools/counties/parents need to differentiate between special needs students who, with the right help and interventions, can become functioning members of society and students who, no matter what anyone does, will never hold any sort of job or live alone period. I'm not saying those students are not also deserving of help and support, but trying to paint both kinds of students with the same brush is not helpful to either group.

My kid will hopefully hold a job but will probably never live independently. He deserves and needs as many resources as he can get. Maybe we should separate out the kids who are special needs light and their parents have a lot of money. They take up a lions share of time and resources at my kids school. They are always complaining and having meetings.

I feel like this would be one of the easiest places to start limiting entitlements. Allow the school team to decline to have yet another periodic IEP review after a certain yearly quota, or to cut off a meeting after a certain number of hours (not continue it, end it). Somebody posted here once that they made their team have at least 5 IEP meetings per year and I was aghast. One family getting five 2-hour IEP meetings, or three 3-hour IEP meetings, or whatever, where 15-20 other kids miss hours of speech or reading intervention or whatever while the staff sit around the table listening to goals being nitpicked in ways that will have no functional impact, is exactly what "benefits do not outweigh the costs" refers to. I had to sit through 12 combined hours of meetings once for a child who didn't even attend the school and whose family had no intention of sending them. During that time, every child seen by the gen ed teacher, the special ed teacher, the SLP, and the OT missed their services. These are the types of cases that drive teachers out.

I remember needing to have a second IEP meeting pretty quickly once I realized the “ school team” didn’t put any of my child’s 504 accommodations into her IEP. Absolutely zero of them, but I’m sure that was an innocent oversight and I guess that IEP meeting was unnecessary. After all they just want what’s best for the child right.

This is kinda on you. You had a draft of the iep before the meeting and never looked at it? Also, I’m a sped teacher and I have no access to any 504 paperwork. So I would have no idea what would have been on a 504.

You know you’re right, I expected some type of competency from a system to find and evaluate kids with disabilities and then provide appropriate services and accommodations, that was absolutely my fault. I hope others don’t do the same and have an advocate or attorney from the very beginning.

I expected not just competency but that people in the educational system would know, understand and comply with their legal obligations in the educational field.

I have found shocking ignorance at all levels - school psychologists who do not know the legal test for determining eligibility, teachers and administrators at all levels who do not understand that the IEP or 504 are legal documents that must be complied with and aren't up for re-negotiating outside the IEP or 504 team.

So far, IME, the associate superintendent for special education understands MCPS's legal obligations and the potential liability of being out of compliance, but one shouldn't really ever have to write the ASSE to bring the school into legal compliance.

There is not enough money in the budget for them to fully comply and to offer any kind of education to students without IEPs. They have to triage, but that triaging is illegal. The administrators are in an impossible no win position

It is not triage when a psychologist doesn't know the legal standard for eligibility determination - it's professional incompetence.

IME, flowing the law takes *less* time not more. I once sent 11 emails and spent countless hours trying to get an administrator to provide an accommodation. The amount of time wasted on that could have paid a teacher for a week.

I would say about 80% of the time spent in IEP and parent teacher meetings has been solely because of refusal to comply with a legal obligation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, this will get flamed but I also think schools/counties/parents need to differentiate between special needs students who, with the right help and interventions, can become functioning members of society and students who, no matter what anyone does, will never hold any sort of job or live alone period. I'm not saying those students are not also deserving of help and support, but trying to paint both kinds of students with the same brush is not helpful to either group.

My kid will hopefully hold a job but will probably never live independently. He deserves and needs as many resources as he can get. Maybe we should separate out the kids who are special needs light and their parents have a lot of money. They take up a lions share of time and resources at my kids school. They are always complaining and having meetings.

I feel like this would be one of the easiest places to start limiting entitlements. Allow the school team to decline to have yet another periodic IEP review after a certain yearly quota, or to cut off a meeting after a certain number of hours (not continue it, end it). Somebody posted here once that they made their team have at least 5 IEP meetings per year and I was aghast. One family getting five 2-hour IEP meetings, or three 3-hour IEP meetings, or whatever, where 15-20 other kids miss hours of speech or reading intervention or whatever while the staff sit around the table listening to goals being nitpicked in ways that will have no functional impact, is exactly what "benefits do not outweigh the costs" refers to. I had to sit through 12 combined hours of meetings once for a child who didn't even attend the school and whose family had no intention of sending them. During that time, every child seen by the gen ed teacher, the special ed teacher, the SLP, and the OT missed their services. These are the types of cases that drive teachers out.

I remember needing to have a second IEP meeting pretty quickly once I realized the “ school team” didn’t put any of my child’s 504 accommodations into her IEP. Absolutely zero of them, but I’m sure that was an innocent oversight and I guess that IEP meeting was unnecessary. After all they just want what’s best for the child right.

This is kinda on you. You had a draft of the iep before the meeting and never looked at it? Also, I’m a sped teacher and I have no access to any 504 paperwork. So I would have no idea what would have been on a 504.

It is the obligation of the school-based IEP team to gather all available data about the child prior to the IEP meeting and share such documents with the parents in compliance with the 5day rule.

While you, individual sped teacher may not have access to the 504 plan, the person who is in charge of managing the IEP meeting certainly does and it is a serious error on the part if the IEP team manager not to include the 504 accommodations in the 504 plan.

Also, just because a student has an IEP doesn't mean the don't also qualify for a 504 - having an IEP doesn't extinguish 504 rights, but the IEP team is supposed to incorporate those accommodations on the IEP document so everything is in one place.

Please be educated about the whole system and the team obligations before you blame and shame parents.

Blame and shame her for not reading the document before the meeting AND not seeing that they weren’t incorporating it at the meeting?

So you can blame and shame a parent for not knowing IEP/504 processes ( if that will make you feel better) and trying to get their child help in public school or you can say it is the responsibility of educators to provide the supports and accommodations that children need. It seems reasonable to expect educators to do their job.
I never knew it was educators against parents/students with disabilities until I had a child with a learning disability, then we learn very quickly that it is . That is why there will never be any healing. And it’s surprising how bitter school staff can be, you are talking about children getting what they need to learn. I will never understand how that is a difficult ask.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, this will get flamed but I also think schools/counties/parents need to differentiate between special needs students who, with the right help and interventions, can become functioning members of society and students who, no matter what anyone does, will never hold any sort of job or live alone period. I'm not saying those students are not also deserving of help and support, but trying to paint both kinds of students with the same brush is not helpful to either group.

My kid will hopefully hold a job but will probably never live independently. He deserves and needs as many resources as he can get. Maybe we should separate out the kids who are special needs light and their parents have a lot of money. They take up a lions share of time and resources at my kids school. They are always complaining and having meetings.

I feel like this would be one of the easiest places to start limiting entitlements. Allow the school team to decline to have yet another periodic IEP review after a certain yearly quota, or to cut off a meeting after a certain number of hours (not continue it, end it). Somebody posted here once that they made their team have at least 5 IEP meetings per year and I was aghast. One family getting five 2-hour IEP meetings, or three 3-hour IEP meetings, or whatever, where 15-20 other kids miss hours of speech or reading intervention or whatever while the staff sit around the table listening to goals being nitpicked in ways that will have no functional impact, is exactly what "benefits do not outweigh the costs" refers to. I had to sit through 12 combined hours of meetings once for a child who didn't even attend the school and whose family had no intention of sending them. During that time, every child seen by the gen ed teacher, the special ed teacher, the SLP, and the OT missed their services. These are the types of cases that drive teachers out.

I remember needing to have a second IEP meeting pretty quickly once I realized the “ school team” didn’t put any of my child’s 504 accommodations into her IEP. Absolutely zero of them, but I’m sure that was an innocent oversight and I guess that IEP meeting was unnecessary. After all they just want what’s best for the child right.

This is kinda on you. You had a draft of the iep before the meeting and never looked at it? Also, I’m a sped teacher and I have no access to any 504 paperwork. So I would have no idea what would have been on a 504.

It is the obligation of the school-based IEP team to gather all available data about the child prior to the IEP meeting and share such documents with the parents in compliance with the 5day rule.

While you, individual sped teacher may not have access to the 504 plan, the person who is in charge of managing the IEP meeting certainly does and it is a serious error on the part if the IEP team manager not to include the 504 accommodations in the 504 plan.

Also, just because a student has an IEP doesn't mean the don't also qualify for a 504 - having an IEP doesn't extinguish 504 rights, but the IEP team is supposed to incorporate those accommodations on the IEP document so everything is in one place.

Please be educated about the whole system and the team obligations before you blame and shame parents.

Y’all are so confused and spreading false information. You cannot by law have both an IEP and a 504. A 504 gives accommodations. An IEP is given for eligible students with goals and services. If a child with an IEP needs accommodations, those go on the IEP. They don’t get a 504 good

Y’all are just nuts! You give suggestions on fixing the system but don’t even know the basics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are just wrong on 504s. They don't provide instruction on how to instruct or extra instruction but they certainly detail disabilities and how to make things better for the student which often includes work from the teacher. Also what does this have to do with anything? The person was talking about an IEP.

Questions like why would a special education teacher have a 504 document (I guess this is a student with an IEP and a 504) is an example of why this system is so broken acting like this is such a stupid idea. It makes perfect sense why a special ed teacher would have all the documents available on the child's disability.

Special education teachers do not work with kids with 504s. Kids with 504s have accommodations provided by the gen ed teacher in the gen ed setting to allow students to access the curriculum.

Social Ed teachers work with kids who have IEPS and give specialized instruction.

[Anonymous]

As a parent I would love to get documents before a meeting. That is a place to start for schools to build a relationship with parents

[Anonymous]

As a parent I just think the system sucks. I definitely feel for special educators who are caught in the middle of it. My experience is with my child being deemed not eligible for an IEP. That's fine and reasonable but what I don't like is the impulse the special ed staff have to try to gaslight you into thinking your child doesn't need any support (in school or out of school) or that the diagnoses are wrong based on a very basic screening. Every licensed professional my child has worked with for longer than 1 hour would 100% agree with the diagnoses. In our meeting one of the therapists was practically rolling her eyes at the diagnoses, which just makes them lose credibility for me. I worry a lot of kids don't get the support they need because they are intentionally trying to lull families into complacency. And I get it, the system is over-burdened, but it definitely feels a little dishonest and bordering on abusive the way they speak to parents sometimes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a parent I would love to get documents before a meeting. That is a place to start for schools to build a relationship with parents

What school district are you in? In MD, you have a right to all documents referenced at the meeting 5 days in advance. In DC there is also a right to receive materials in advance. (not sure how many days). You also have a right under FERPA to any educational record with your kid's name on it plus any necessary material to understand it (test, answer key, MAP results and breakdowns, etc.) You can ask for this to be provided prior to a meeting.

I have actually stopped in the middle of an IEP meeting when presented with unfamiliar documents and said, "I'm sorry, these documents should have been provided to me in the 5-day packet - we are going to have to adjourn this meeting and continue 5 business days or more from today, but prior to the timeline expiration. If the school refuses or tries to disincentivize me from time to review by offering a date another month or two away, I remind them that they are out of compliance and the only way to come back into compliance is to meet again within timeline because I am not waiving timeline. It's my right to participate as a full and equal team member, and I cannot do that without access to the information that is being used to make decisions about IEP eligibility and content."

You can bet the school never broke the 5-day rule again with me.

To all you teachers who blame parents for so many meetings - it's like blaming a woman for the fact her husband is beating her. I am not waiving my rights because someone on the team is incompetent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, this will get flamed but I also think schools/counties/parents need to differentiate between special needs students who, with the right help and interventions, can become functioning members of society and students who, no matter what anyone does, will never hold any sort of job or live alone period. I'm not saying those students are not also deserving of help and support, but trying to paint both kinds of students with the same brush is not helpful to either group.

My kid will hopefully hold a job but will probably never live independently. He deserves and needs as many resources as he can get. Maybe we should separate out the kids who are special needs light and their parents have a lot of money. They take up a lions share of time and resources at my kids school. They are always complaining and having meetings.

I feel like this would be one of the easiest places to start limiting entitlements. Allow the school team to decline to have yet another periodic IEP review after a certain yearly quota, or to cut off a meeting after a certain number of hours (not continue it, end it). Somebody posted here once that they made their team have at least 5 IEP meetings per year and I was aghast. One family getting five 2-hour IEP meetings, or three 3-hour IEP meetings, or whatever, where 15-20 other kids miss hours of speech or reading intervention or whatever while the staff sit around the table listening to goals being nitpicked in ways that will have no functional impact, is exactly what "benefits do not outweigh the costs" refers to. I had to sit through 12 combined hours of meetings once for a child who didn't even attend the school and whose family had no intention of sending them. During that time, every child seen by the gen ed teacher, the special ed teacher, the SLP, and the OT missed their services. These are the types of cases that drive teachers out.

I remember needing to have a second IEP meeting pretty quickly once I realized the “ school team” didn’t put any of my child’s 504 accommodations into her IEP. Absolutely zero of them, but I’m sure that was an innocent oversight and I guess that IEP meeting was unnecessary. After all they just want what’s best for the child right.

This is kinda on you. You had a draft of the iep before the meeting and never looked at it? Also, I’m a sped teacher and I have no access to any 504 paperwork. So I would have no idea what would have been on a 504.

It is the obligation of the school-based IEP team to gather all available data about the child prior to the IEP meeting and share such documents with the parents in compliance with the 5day rule.

While you, individual sped teacher may not have access to the 504 plan, the person who is in charge of managing the IEP meeting certainly does and it is a serious error on the part if the IEP team manager not to include the 504 accommodations in the 504 plan.

Also, just because a student has an IEP doesn't mean the don't also qualify for a 504 - having an IEP doesn't extinguish 504 rights, but the IEP team is supposed to incorporate those accommodations on the IEP document so everything is in one place.

Please be educated about the whole system and the team obligations before you blame and shame parents.

Y’all are so confused and spreading false information. You cannot by law have both an IEP and a 504. A 504 gives accommodations. An IEP is given for eligible students with goals and services. If a child with an IEP needs accommodations, those go on the IEP. They don’t get a 504 good

Y’all are just nuts! You give suggestions on fixing the system but don’t even know the basics.

I was trying to say this, but I was also trying to say (perhaps not clearly enough), is that having an IEP doesn't extinguish section 504 rights or eligibility. A child can be eligible for and have rights under Section 504 law, having rights and eligibility under section 504 doesn't mean that a student has both an IEP and a 504. The 504 rights, i.e. accommodations, are put on the IEP.

It's an important distinction because some parents (like OP) think that if something was on the 504 plan, it might be taken away under an IEP, which really shouldn't be the case (unless a better substitute is provided). And some schools try to disincentivize parents in that way.