2024 College Graduates, how’s the job market?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Prediction (without dog in fight) CS and most STEM over or almost over. Glut of kids from the over focus on this for last 10-15 years and skills moving to AI. Will still need human implementation and judgement, though.

Kids who went into CS because they like it will do fine.

The lemming kids will pivot with all the other lemmings, or become inwardly seething incels who occasionally come out of the basement to cause trouble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS is a senior in computer engineering at NC State and has a job lined up, as do 2 of his roommates (one is CE, the other is a similar major). The 4th roommate started graduate school early this semester.

Wait to see when they get an actual start date in writing. A lot of start date delays happening (EY, Bain, McKinsey) and some leading to rescinded offers (Amazon). If they don’t have a start date by now, I would have your DS start pushing for one in writing. Also, ask for an earlier start. This is not the year to take the summer off and start in Sept.

This. Bain rescinded DS’s offer last week. He is now looking again and planning to move back home 😟.

wow sorry about this - had to be elated getting hired by the best of the best, and then to have it stripped away. Almost like a cruel joke. Is your DC an undergrad, and can u name school? has to be T5 if they landed at Bain..

this happened to a lot of SAIS/SFS grads in 2011 after republicans took the house and forced obama to sign sequestration/budget control act

i know CIA pulled offers due to funding of positions

Happened a ton during the dotcom bust for 2001 & 2002 grads and after the financial crisis in 2009 for consulting and banking.

This is a bit different because there is no equivalent major external force. Really, hangover from artificially high demand from low interest rate environment.

AI is also starting to make some inroads.

smart comment - right on point

traditional consulting is uniquely positioned to be gutted by AI

from a mckinsey AP:

"Regarding AI. My take is impact on MBB will be huge.

ChatGPT is quite good at giving fast answers, using a credible logic, can pull in a large knowledge base to find 'best practices' and present all that in a digestible manner.

That's essentially what you expect from a consulting team.

Once more mature, I think the typical EM+2 team will just become 0.2EM+0.2Asc+ChatGPT, the team basically doing QC, handling clients and doing expert calls. Value add for clients paying $1 million to a consulting will be pretty hard to justify."

MBB all have their internal 'chatgpt' - mckinsey's is called Lilly and supposedly it is way worse than off-the-shelf LLM wrappers

But can AI create those slick powerpoint presentions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One kid at Michigan, one at Wisconsin. Michigan is generally a target for everything so he's set. The other at Wisconsin, however, is struggling despite having a higher gpa.

Wisconsin is a great school, I didn't really notice a difference in academics. The problem is its very unrecognized and obscure with employers...that goes from Mckinsey to a gas station.

Is this causing resentment between the two?

I thought wisco was a target for ag/food related stuff - Cargill, Archer Daniels Midland, cpg firms like Pepsi, Nestle, Hershey, Mondelez, Coca-cola etc

Somewhat, although Mich kid feels bad because he knows Wisconsin is good...His favorite history professor did a PHD there. The jobs in Wisconsin vs Michigan itself are totally different. For example, PwC has an office in Detroit, so their representatives took a 30 min drive to Ann Arbor and were very eager to hire. With Wisc, my kid said you could tell what little big name employers did come made an effort to communicate the fact they went out of their way to get to Madison and were much more strict with even giving interviews. Google and Amazon were like that. The vast majority of other jobs in Wisconsin are farming. Just as advice to the other DC's looking at Wisconsin for their kid.

What about Northwestern Mutual and Epic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS is a senior in computer engineering at NC State and has a job lined up, as do 2 of his roommates (one is CE, the other is a similar major). The 4th roommate started graduate school early this semester.

Wait to see when they get an actual start date in writing. A lot of start date delays happening (EY, Bain, McKinsey) and some leading to rescinded offers (Amazon). If they don’t have a start date by now, I would have your DS start pushing for one in writing. Also, ask for an earlier start. This is not the year to take the summer off and start in Sept.

This. Bain rescinded DS’s offer last week. He is now looking again and planning to move back home 😟.

wow sorry about this - had to be elated getting hired by the best of the best, and then to have it stripped away. Almost like a cruel joke. Is your DC an undergrad, and can u name school? has to be T5 if they landed at Bain..

this happened to a lot of SAIS/SFS grads in 2011 after republicans took the house and forced obama to sign sequestration/budget control act

i know CIA pulled offers due to funding of positions

Happened a ton during the dotcom bust for 2001 & 2002 grads and after the financial crisis in 2009 for consulting and banking.

This is a bit different because there is no equivalent major external force. Really, hangover from artificially high demand from low interest rate environment.

AI is also starting to make some inroads.

I think you can tell from DCUM that a lot of CS majors were pushed into the field by their parents and aren’t at a great level.

At any given school, the typical CS majors must be one talent level lower than what CS grads from the same schools 10 years.

So, the economy is worse, and, on average, the kids are relatively low-talent, bored, boring, entitled, antiwork socialists, with Covid-related deficits in motivation and people skills, with absurd salary expectations and parents with even more absurd expectations.

[Anonymous]

Re: the Bain offer. It has not been publicized that Bain is rescinding offers. Post college or post MBA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fed jobs are so easy to get but low pay. A recent college will get a GS-7 step 1. That’s around 56K/yr in the DMV. Too low for a CS major.

This kind of thinking is why a lot of CS majors are going to be roadkill.

The top priority should be avoiding a big gap in the resume. They need to get decent work in a field they like first and worry about salary and benefits later.

If they have roommates and live frugally, they should be able to make federally student loan payments on 56k/yr. If they have big PLUS loan bills, why?

[Anonymous]

New grads can make it work on $56k/year. My kid makes $65 and saved nearly $12K last year. You just have to get a roommate and avoid living large. Best to avoid a resume gap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fed jobs are so easy to get but low pay. A recent college will get a GS-7 step 1. That’s around 56K/yr in the DMV. Too low for a CS major.

This kind of thinking is why a lot of CS majors are going to be roadkill.

The top priority should be avoiding a big gap in the resume. They need to get decent work in a field they like first and worry about salary and benefits later.

If they have roommates and live frugally, they should be able to make federally student loan payments on 56k/yr. If they have big PLUS loan bills, why?

? you think CS grads are having a harder time than English majors?

$56K/yr is low for CS, to be sure, but CS majors still have an easier time finding a job than some other majors, like English majors, unless those English majors have grad degrees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know lots of CS majors from schools below the top 10 who are having a lot of trouble finding jobs.

And what about other majors?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One kid at Michigan, one at Wisconsin. Michigan is generally a target for everything so he's set. The other at Wisconsin, however, is struggling despite having a higher gpa.

Wisconsin is a great school, I didn't really notice a difference in academics. The problem is its very unrecognized and obscure with employers...that goes from Mckinsey to a gas station.

Is this causing resentment between the two?

I thought wisco was a target for ag/food related stuff - Cargill, Archer Daniels Midland, cpg firms like Pepsi, Nestle, Hershey, Mondelez, Coca-cola etc

Somewhat, although Mich kid feels bad because he knows Wisconsin is good...His favorite history professor did a PHD there. The jobs in Wisconsin vs Michigan itself are totally different. For example, PwC has an office in Detroit, so their representatives took a 30 min drive to Ann Arbor and were very eager to hire. With Wisc, my kid said you could tell what little big name employers did come made an effort to communicate the fact they went out of their way to get to Madison and were much more strict with even giving interviews. Google and Amazon were like that. The vast majority of other jobs in Wisconsin are farming. Just as advice to the other DC's looking at Wisconsin for their kid.

What about Northwestern Mutual and Epic?

Good but the companies are too small. Both NW Mutual and Epic were founded by Wisconsin alumni, but the university can't just keep generating all the jobs for the state. Same thing with law, Foley and Lardner naming partners were Wisconsin alumni. Rather, you need need the large diverse range of industries Michigan has. General Motors and Ford, for example, are huge employers (not generated by Univ of Michigan) who employ thousands of Michigan engineering and Law students. McKinsey and PwC, Ernst and Young, Bain, all have offices in Detroit. None whatsoever in Wisconsin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One kid at Michigan, one at Wisconsin. Michigan is generally a target for everything so he's set. The other at Wisconsin, however, is struggling despite having a higher gpa.

Wisconsin is a great school, I didn't really notice a difference in academics. The problem is its very unrecognized and obscure with employers...that goes from Mckinsey to a gas station.

Is this causing resentment between the two?

I thought wisco was a target for ag/food related stuff - Cargill, Archer Daniels Midland, cpg firms like Pepsi, Nestle, Hershey, Mondelez, Coca-cola etc

Somewhat, although Mich kid feels bad because he knows Wisconsin is good...His favorite history professor did a PHD there. The jobs in Wisconsin vs Michigan itself are totally different. For example, PwC has an office in Detroit, so their representatives took a 30 min drive to Ann Arbor and were very eager to hire. With Wisc, my kid said you could tell what little big name employers did come made an effort to communicate the fact they went out of their way to get to Madison and were much more strict with even giving interviews. Google and Amazon were like that. The vast majority of other jobs in Wisconsin are farming. Just as advice to the other DC's looking at Wisconsin for their kid.

What about Northwestern Mutual and Epic?

Good but the companies are too small. Both NW Mutual and Epic were founded by Wisconsin alumni, but the university can't just keep generating all the jobs for the state. Same thing with law, Foley and Lardner naming partners were Wisconsin alumni. Rather, you need need the large diverse range of industries Michigan has. General Motors and Ford, for example, are huge employers (not generated by Univ of Michigan) who employ thousands of Michigan engineering and Law students. McKinsey and PwC, Ernst and Young, Bain, all have offices in Detroit. None whatsoever in Wisconsin.

What abt Chicago?! Wisconsin is closer to Chicago than Michigan…..

[Anonymous]

My English major was employed within a month of graduation at $74k. Truly ignorant to keep knocking liberal arts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My English major was employed within a month of graduation at $74k. Truly ignorant to keep knocking liberal arts.

rank of school, type of job?

[Anonymous]

Kids of friends we have are not doing great. Even friend whose kid studied Mechanical Engineering at VT and had an internship last year doesn’t have a job yet. People who know who have jobs are mostly doing fellowship programs if social science, lab work if science, and a few corporate learning development programs for business majors. But they’re not at elite schools, more like LACs ranked 25-75 and national universities ranked 20-200.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fed jobs are so easy to get but low pay. A recent college will get a GS-7 step 1. That’s around 56K/yr in the DMV. Too low for a CS major.

This kind of thinking is why a lot of CS majors are going to be roadkill.

The top priority should be avoiding a big gap in the resume. They need to get decent work in a field they like first and worry about salary and benefits later.

If they have roommates and live frugally, they should be able to make federally student loan payments on 56k/yr. If they have big PLUS loan bills, why?

+ 1