Counseling Out

[Anonymous]

In the past week, I have heard of two incidents where private schools have counseled out students who were not doing well academically. From what I understand, the parents were told that the child was not invited back. That sounds pretty devastating, so I'm wondering if schools that "counsel out" students also help the students find a place at another private school? Or are the families basically on their own?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In the past week, I have heard of two incidents where private schools have counseled out students who were not doing well academically. From what I understand, the parents were told that the child was not invited back. That sounds pretty devastating, so I'm wondering if schools that "counsel out" students also help the students find a place at another private school? Or are the families basically on their own?

Anymore specific details in terms of age and how long the students had attended current school?

Generally speaking, I think counseled out from an ongoing school usually means the there has been a longstanding question of whether the student could do the work and or would do the work that have involved many faculty/student/parent counseling meetings as to the school's concerns and reaching out to find a way for it to work. That's where the counseling comes in... during the period of trying to make it work but the student either has to catch up in areas where he/she lags or be more productive in completing assignments. The counseling is probably not as involved in the part where the student is not invited back, but in some cases, if a student has made great effort but it just wasn't a right fit, then I think that some schools would in fact recommend and possibly advocate for student to be admitted to to schools better matched for student and explain that the student was a diligent student but needed to but wasn't cut out for present school because of x but would be a strong candidate for the new school because of y skills.

[Anonymous]

My understanding is that most schools assist in helping to place these students elsewhere. They call other schools, discuss the child and help facilitate a connection.

[Anonymous]

This is very common. My DCs 4 schools all “do not invite back” kids in all grades. Generally, the reason is behaviour problems. This is done after a lot of discussions with the parents informing them that their child is disruptive. If the kids are having academic problems, the kids generally leave on their own to a better fitting school. I’ve never heard of counseling out because typically the kids involved are undiagnosed ADHD kids and teachers do not diagnose kids.

[Anonymous]

In academically rigorous schools, a few kids get counseled out every year. In the four cases where I know the family involved, it was very painful and created a lot of anger. However, two of the kids ultimately benefitted from the decision because he/she gained confidence in their new school and no longer felt defeated by academics. In two other cases, the kids continued to struggle academically.

[Anonymous]

5:53 Teachers do not diagnose, but schools should recommend testing and get involved earlier, don't you think? I've heard lots of stories about students at top schools who've been tested at the parents' insistence, often after schools have insisted that there's nothing wrong, and then the schools have not been supportive of their children's learning style. I also know schools will tolerate all sorts of academic underperformance when it comes to the children of faculty!

[Anonymous]

and tolerate children of wealthy donors and children with lots of siblings at the school. My DC has a number of these in her class. Kids have been infrequently counseled out of the class (or I believe a threat of being held back vs. please find another school) but it has to get pretty bad. I actually think there are a lot of parents in denial who think the school is just fine for their kid and that the bad marks on the report card are the fault of the teacher. Some of these kids would be SO MUCH better off in an environment where they get extra academic/learning style support it drives me a little nuts.

[Anonymous]

I worked in a school where we counseled out kids, and as a teacher, I always worked my butt off to get him or her into the right environment. I would have to be honest (if it about behavior), but it was my impression that the teachers and admin did their best to help the student.

[Anonymous]

It isn't always academic. I know of a child who had an incident at school that was dogging her with the other kids. The school suggested she could benefit from a fresh start elsewhere and she did leave, and thrived in her new environment.

[Anonymous]

There have been quite a few posts on the special needs boards about kids getting counseled out of private schools. Despite the smaller class size and efforts on parts of parents to make it work, there are some private schools who do not want to deal with kids who have leasrning disabilities, not all of whom have ADHD. It's too bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There have been quite a few posts on the special needs boards about kids getting counseled out of private schools. Despite the smaller class size and efforts on parts of parents to make it work, there are some private schools who do not want to deal with kids who have leasrning disabilities, not all of whom have ADHD. It's too bad.

Those private schools should NOT "deal" with a LD/SN student if the school does not profess to be able to. It is a disservice to the the student, the family, and the other students in the class. If the teacher is not trained properly, small class sizes do not make a damn bit of difference.

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry PP but I take offense to your post. Children with LD/SN are still human beings and they are still children. Ostracizing them, ousting them, separating them from typical children, or banishing them to be around those of their own kind only demoralizes them. Most privates like Sidwell, Potomac, Maret, GDS, and even FH (who claims to cater to different 'learning styles) do banish children with LD/SN. It is an affront to all children who have issues, and it is an affront to humanity. What does it say about our community when schools and parents too would prefer to banish different children rather than opt for inclusion? It says that we are deeply insensitive to how it makes these children feel. Public schools include children with SN as much as possible. Privates should learn a lesson from them on how to treat all children, even different ones, with some compassion. And so should some parents.

[stats4sam]

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry PP but I take offense to your post. Children with LD/SN are still human beings and they are still children. Ostracizing them, ousting them, separating them from typical children, or banishing them to be around those of their own kind only demoralizes them. Most privates like Sidwell, Potomac, Maret, GDS, and even FH (who claims to cater to different 'learning styles) do banish children with LD/SN. It is an affront to all children who have issues, and it is an affront to humanity. What does it say about our community when schools and parents too would prefer to banish different children rather than opt for inclusion? It says that we are deeply insensitive to how it makes these children feel. Public schools include children with SN as much as possible. Privates should learn a lesson from them on how to treat all children, even different ones, with some compassion. And so should some parents.

I think you misread 9:56's post (or at least her intent). She was reacting to the language of "dealing with" kids with LDs/SNs. And her point was it's not simply a matter of effort but of expertise which most classroom teachers lack.

Public school systems are legally required to provide learning specialists (or pay for outsourcing) so that no kid with any kind of LD/SN is denied a free education (provided in a manner that is as inclusive as possible). And public school systems receive federal funds to help them meet this mandate. Private schools don't face the same requirements and generally don't get the same subsidies (the exception is private special ed school where districts send kids whose needs can't be met in-house). So if private schools can't and don't provide the same range of LD/SN services that publics do.

That said, I think that your characterization of local private schools is not entirely accurate. I don't know about the other schools you've mentioned, but GDS has three learning specialists on staff in the lower school alone and at least one each in middle and high school. And I'm fairly certain that at least 1/4 of the students at the HS get some type of accommodation based on an (external/documented) LD/SN diagnosis. So significant resources are being devoted to enable kids with LD/SN to excel at GDS. That doesn't mean that the school can/should admit every kid with an LD/SN -- in general, it's a school with selective admissions. Basically, GDS can and does accommodate kids who are both gifted/high-performing and LD/SN and whose parents can help financially with some of the services these kids need to meet their full potential.

[Anonymous]

"There have been quite a few posts on the special needs boards about kids getting counseled out of private schools. Despite the smaller class size and efforts on parts of parents to make it work, there are some private schools who do not want to deal with kids who have learning disabilities, not all of whom have ADHD. It's too bad."

This was my post. Some may not like it, but discrimination at private schools exists. And what makes anyone think that teachers in public schools get training in special needs more than those in private schools? The entire profession is struggling. While it is good that GDS is doing something for LD/SN kids, that is not the case in other places.

School districts are required to provide services to children in private/parochial schools, so the argument that a private school must do it won't wash. Kids in private schools get services. And in many cases, parents with kids in private and public schools pay for additional services.

Private schools can do what they want. That's the point - there are some private schools that if they don't want your child or to work with you, even if your child is qualified to be there and needs some support, then they can counsel you out. This thread is about being counseled out. Having special needs can (unfortunately) be a reason.

[Anonymous]

stats4sam wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry PP but I take offense to your post. Children with LD/SN are still human beings and they are still children. Ostracizing them, ousting them, separating them from typical children, or banishing them to be around those of their own kind only demoralizes them. Most privates like Sidwell, Potomac, Maret, GDS, and even FH (who claims to cater to different 'learning styles) do banish children with LD/SN. It is an affront to all children who have issues, and it is an affront to humanity. What does it say about our community when schools and parents too would prefer to banish different children rather than opt for inclusion? It says that we are deeply insensitive to how it makes these children feel. Public schools include children with SN as much as possible. Privates should learn a lesson from them on how to treat all children, even different ones, with some compassion. And so should some parents.

I think you misread 9:56's post (or at least her intent). She was reacting to the language of "dealing with" kids with LDs/SNs. And her point was it's not simply a matter of effort but of expertise which most classroom teachers lack.

Public school systems are legally required to provide learning specialists (or pay for outsourcing) so that no kid with any kind of LD/SN is denied a free education (provided in a manner that is as inclusive as possible). And public school systems receive federal funds to help them meet this mandate. Private schools don't face the same requirements and generally don't get the same subsidies (the exception is private special ed school where districts send kids whose needs can't be met in-house). So if private schools can't and don't provide the same range of LD/SN services that publics do.

That said, I think that your characterization of local private schools is not entirely accurate. I don't know about the other schools you've mentioned, but GDS has three learning specialists on staff in the lower school alone and at least one each in middle and high school. And I'm fairly certain that at least 1/4 of the students at the HS get some type of accommodation based on an (external/documented) LD/SN diagnosis. So significant resources are being devoted to enable kids with LD/SN to excel at GDS. That doesn't mean that the school can/should admit every kid with an LD/SN -- in general, it's a school with selective admissions. Basically, GDS can and does accommodate kids who are both gifted/high-performing and LD/SN and whose parents can help financially with some of the services these kids need to meet their full potential.

It is MY quote the PP was upset about, and your defense is SPOT on! I deeply believe in inclusion, but having taught in area private schools, some schools simply do have the resources, the wherewithal, or the desire to be inclusive. They are private businesses and have the right, just as they have the right to be single-sex, religious, etc.

When the school and student are not a match, the student can suffer horribly. I have seen it over and over and have counseled MANY parents to take their bright, but SN kids out. Their self-esteems were trashed and the manner in which the material was taught was not suitable for how their beautiful minds worked. It is just reality.