Fiancé wants a church wedding

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, does your fiance want to raise kids to be Catholic?

OP here. No. He went to church here and there growing up and went to catholic school but he’s not religious. He hasn’t been to church except with in years. We do not plan to raise our kids in any religion.

Have you actually discussed this? He folded pretty quick with pressure from the family.

OP here. He assumed we would get married in a church since everyone he knows has been married in a church. He was shocked when I told him I didn’t want to, and said all of hai family is expecting us to be married in a church.

I can almost guarantee he will be equally shocked when you balk at your MIL’s gift of a Christening dress.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, does your fiance want to raise kids to be Catholic?

OP here. No. He went to church here and there growing up and went to catholic school but he’s not religious. He hasn’t been to church except with in years. We do not plan to raise our kids in any religion.

Have you actually discussed this? He folded pretty quick with pressure from the family.

OP here. He assumed we would get married in a church since everyone he knows has been married in a church. He was shocked when I told him I didn’t want to, and said all of hai family is expecting us to be married in a church.

But you said you already have a venue booked for reception and can have the ceremony there. Did you do all that on your own?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The non-Catholic spouse lying about agreeing to raise your kids to be Catholic is grounds for an invalid marriage. If he marries outside of the church at your beautiful venue without a dispensation, that too would be an invalid marriage. Either way you do it, you guys will not be married in the eyes of the Catholic church. This might not mean anything to you right now, but it is a guarantee that there will be problems in the future. Especially as children start showing up.

You should really, really reconsider getting married to each other. You might think you are in love, but you are not a good fit at all.

The non-Catholic party no longer needs to agree to raise the kids Catholic. The Catholic party has to agree to do their best and there ought to be a founded hope it will occur.

Interesting, that must be a very recent change. Still, if OP’s fiancè lies about intending on raising his own kids Catholic (which OP seems to think he’s willing to do), then it’s still an invalid marriage.

I suspect the more likely outcome is that he *will* get the kids baptized, and this will cause more problems for OP who is really, really against this whole religion thing. And they’ll divorce, and he’ll get the annulment because the marriage was never there in the first place.

Better to end things here and now.

[Anonymous]

BTDT. Clearly you have some options- (1) roll over. They will demand to baptize the kids too, first communion, the whole nine yards. Are you going to be able to stand aside & let them do this, when it is your baby/kid? Try to imagine. Some people can, some can’t. For me, it was out of the question. 2) hold very firm. Will cause problems with the family and your DH will resent you.

As a non religious person who has BTDT with the Catholic relatives and been harped on about religion my whole life I present option 3: take “cover” in some type of liberal church or “church”. A lot of people do this. Find some excuse that you need to be married there and attend there- it is close to your house, you have friends who go there, you love the music program or community service or want to send future kid to their school. Think of something- Literally anything. Get married there, attend services maybe 2 times a year or participate in the volunteer program or whatever. When you have kids do whatever baby blessings or baptism ritual they offer. It provides cover and face saving on the ILs end “welllll at least grand baby is being raised Christian blah blah blah” “wellll at least they are being married in a church” blah blah and your future DH will see it is a compromise. He clearly does not care about religion. Not saying your ILs will exactly love this (they won’t- they want Catholic)- but they will grudgingly accept it.

That is your best choice here…take it from someone who has btdt

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:BTDT. Clearly you have some options- (1) roll over. They will demand to baptize the kids too, first communion, the whole nine yards. Are you going to be able to stand aside & let them do this, when it is your baby/kid? Try to imagine. Some people can, some can’t. For me, it was out of the question. 2) hold very firm. Will cause problems with the family and your DH will resent you.

As a non religious person who has BTDT with the Catholic relatives and been harped on about religion my whole life I present option 3: take “cover” in some type of liberal church or “church”. A lot of people do this. Find some excuse that you need to be married there and attend there- it is close to your house, you have friends who go there, you love the music program or community service or want to send future kid to their school. Think of something- Literally anything. Get married there, attend services maybe 2 times a year or participate in the volunteer program or whatever. When you have kids do whatever baby blessings or baptism ritual they offer. It provides cover and face saving on the ILs end “welllll at least grand baby is being raised Christian blah blah blah” “wellll at least they are being married in a church” blah blah and your future DH will see it is a compromise. He clearly does not care about religion. Not saying your ILs will exactly love this (they won’t- they want Catholic)- but they will grudgingly accept it.

That is your best choice here…take it from someone who has btdt

Why not just do the Catholic in this case? Why go out of your way to be more difficult, if you don't care anyway, to avoid the Catholic rituals? The husband won't want to go along with this farce when he's Catholic and there is a better alternative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You both don't need to be Catholic. One of you should be and also registered at the church or a church that his family is registered at. You can't just waltz into any church and demand a wedding ceremony. You will need to be registered parishioners, or use his family church, and complete the wedding prep (Pre-Cana), and just jump through all the hoops.

But your post is very off putting all about you, and what you want. You're supposed to be getting married, it's not all about you.

No. One of them must be Catholic to be married in a Catholic church.

Well, the fiancé is. But the point in this case is that the fiancé is Catholic enough to meet the criteria. But he is not practicing and might say he's not Catholic. But if he was raised Catholic he's been baptized, had his Communion and is confirmed. As far as the Church is concerned, he's Catholic.

Yes, the fiancé is Catholic. The point you’re ignoring is the first pp said one should be Catholic. There’s no should about it with the Catholic church. That’s a must.

I said that. Then I clarified. I said "should" because most people getting married in the Church are there because they want to be, they are in good standing. The fiancé is Catholic, being born and raised, but seems now to be lapsed. If you're lapsed should you still consider yourself Catholic?

You are making zero sense. There is no should about it with a Catholic wedding. It’s a must or there’s no Catholic wedding.

He is a Catholic in the eyes of the church. We know this. But, how he identifies is another thing. Which goes back to OP's point that should they just go along with it for appeasement or is it a mockery? They can have the Catholic wedding, but should they?

That’s all that matters if he wants to be married in a Catholic church. What’s a mockery is OP’s suggestion of lying.

You act as if it's so easy to get married in the church. An indifferent, non-practicing couple still has to meet certain criteria. Maybe it's church attendance, pre-cana, meetings with the priest, good standing, before they will be allowed to book their date. It varies. It's not just "does the one person meet the basic criteria". Sounds like they already have a date and venue for their non religious wedding. Trying to plan a Catholic ceremony into an existing timeline might be a huge hurdle.

Nope. You’re inventing something never said. I only commented that 1 person must be Catholic not should be Catholic. If you don’t meet the minimum of one person being Catholic, the rest of what you wrote is irrelevant because there is no chance of a Catholic wedding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BTDT. Clearly you have some options- (1) roll over. They will demand to baptize the kids too, first communion, the whole nine yards. Are you going to be able to stand aside & let them do this, when it is your baby/kid? Try to imagine. Some people can, some can’t. For me, it was out of the question. 2) hold very firm. Will cause problems with the family and your DH will resent you.

As a non religious person who has BTDT with the Catholic relatives and been harped on about religion my whole life I present option 3: take “cover” in some type of liberal church or “church”. A lot of people do this. Find some excuse that you need to be married there and attend there- it is close to your house, you have friends who go there, you love the music program or community service or want to send future kid to their school. Think of something- Literally anything. Get married there, attend services maybe 2 times a year or participate in the volunteer program or whatever. When you have kids do whatever baby blessings or baptism ritual they offer. It provides cover and face saving on the ILs end “welllll at least grand baby is being raised Christian blah blah blah” “wellll at least they are being married in a church” blah blah and your future DH will see it is a compromise. He clearly does not care about religion. Not saying your ILs will exactly love this (they won’t- they want Catholic)- but they will grudgingly accept it.

That is your best choice here…take it from someone who has btdt

Why not just do the Catholic in this case? Why go out of your way to be more difficult, if you don't care anyway, to avoid the Catholic rituals? The husband won't want to go along with this farce when he's Catholic and there is a better alternative.

Because Catholicism is a LOT and will require her do a lot, and she will have future ILS dictating everything if she caves on this now. Her future DH doesn’t care about religion and just wants to avoid problems with his family.This is a way to do that long term.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You both don't need to be Catholic. One of you should be and also registered at the church or a church that his family is registered at. You can't just waltz into any church and demand a wedding ceremony. You will need to be registered parishioners, or use his family church, and complete the wedding prep (Pre-Cana), and just jump through all the hoops.

But your post is very off putting all about you, and what you want. You're supposed to be getting married, it's not all about you.

No. One of them must be Catholic to be married in a Catholic church.

Well, the fiancé is. But the point in this case is that the fiancé is Catholic enough to meet the criteria. But he is not practicing and might say he's not Catholic. But if he was raised Catholic he's been baptized, had his Communion and is confirmed. As far as the Church is concerned, he's Catholic.

Yes, the fiancé is Catholic. The point you’re ignoring is the first pp said one should be Catholic. There’s no should about it with the Catholic church. That’s a must.

I said that. Then I clarified. I said "should" because most people getting married in the Church are there because they want to be, they are in good standing. The fiancé is Catholic, being born and raised, but seems now to be lapsed. If you're lapsed should you still consider yourself Catholic?

You are making zero sense. There is no should about it with a Catholic wedding. It’s a must or there’s no Catholic wedding.

He is a Catholic in the eyes of the church. We know this. But, how he identifies is another thing. Which goes back to OP's point that should they just go along with it for appeasement or is it a mockery? They can have the Catholic wedding, but should they?

That’s all that matters if he wants to be married in a Catholic church. What’s a mockery is OP’s suggestion of lying.

You act as if it's so easy to get married in the church. An indifferent, non-practicing couple still has to meet certain criteria. Maybe it's church attendance, pre-cana, meetings with the priest, good standing, before they will be allowed to book their date. It varies. It's not just "does the one person meet the basic criteria". Sounds like they already have a date and venue for their non religious wedding. Trying to plan a Catholic ceremony into an existing timeline might be a huge hurdle.

Nope. You’re inventing something never said. I only commented that 1 person must be Catholic not should be Catholic. If you don’t meet the minimum of one person being Catholic, the rest of what you wrote is irrelevant because there is no chance of a Catholic wedding.

No chance? Hardly. A non practicing Catholic who has no intention of raising their kids Catholic can still have one if their parents set it all up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BTDT. Clearly you have some options- (1) roll over. They will demand to baptize the kids too, first communion, the whole nine yards. Are you going to be able to stand aside & let them do this, when it is your baby/kid? Try to imagine. Some people can, some can’t. For me, it was out of the question. 2) hold very firm. Will cause problems with the family and your DH will resent you.

As a non religious person who has BTDT with the Catholic relatives and been harped on about religion my whole life I present option 3: take “cover” in some type of liberal church or “church”. A lot of people do this. Find some excuse that you need to be married there and attend there- it is close to your house, you have friends who go there, you love the music program or community service or want to send future kid to their school. Think of something- Literally anything. Get married there, attend services maybe 2 times a year or participate in the volunteer program or whatever. When you have kids do whatever baby blessings or baptism ritual they offer. It provides cover and face saving on the ILs end “welllll at least grand baby is being raised Christian blah blah blah” “wellll at least they are being married in a church” blah blah and your future DH will see it is a compromise. He clearly does not care about religion. Not saying your ILs will exactly love this (they won’t- they want Catholic)- but they will grudgingly accept it.

That is your best choice here…take it from someone who has btdt

Why not just do the Catholic in this case? Why go out of your way to be more difficult, if you don't care anyway, to avoid the Catholic rituals? The husband won't want to go along with this farce when he's Catholic and there is a better alternative.

Because Catholicism is a LOT and will require her do a lot, and she will have future ILS dictating everything if she caves on this now. Her future DH doesn’t care about religion and just wants to avoid problems with his family.This is a way to do that long term.

How so? You're still saying do the baptism, go once or twice a year, volunteer, put on the show. How is that different? Nobody is asking her to convert. Why is that better if it's at the Presbyterian church? And it seems pretty obvious her DH DOES care since he's shocked she doesn't want a church wedding, like he does. Apparently OP has not really talked to him about what he wants at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BTDT. Clearly you have some options- (1) roll over. They will demand to baptize the kids too, first communion, the whole nine yards. Are you going to be able to stand aside & let them do this, when it is your baby/kid? Try to imagine. Some people can, some can’t. For me, it was out of the question. 2) hold very firm. Will cause problems with the family and your DH will resent you.

As a non religious person who has BTDT with the Catholic relatives and been harped on about religion my whole life I present option 3: take “cover” in some type of liberal church or “church”. A lot of people do this. Find some excuse that you need to be married there and attend there- it is close to your house, you have friends who go there, you love the music program or community service or want to send future kid to their school. Think of something- Literally anything. Get married there, attend services maybe 2 times a year or participate in the volunteer program or whatever. When you have kids do whatever baby blessings or baptism ritual they offer. It provides cover and face saving on the ILs end “welllll at least grand baby is being raised Christian blah blah blah” “wellll at least they are being married in a church” blah blah and your future DH will see it is a compromise. He clearly does not care about religion. Not saying your ILs will exactly love this (they won’t- they want Catholic)- but they will grudgingly accept it.

That is your best choice here…take it from someone who has btdt

Why not just do the Catholic in this case? Why go out of your way to be more difficult, if you don't care anyway, to avoid the Catholic rituals? The husband won't want to go along with this farce when he's Catholic and there is a better alternative.

Because Catholicism is a LOT and will require her do a lot, and she will have future ILS dictating everything if she caves on this now. Her future DH doesn’t care about religion and just wants to avoid problems with his family.This is a way to do that long term.

How so? You're still saying do the baptism, go once or twice a year, volunteer, put on the show. How is that different? Nobody is asking her to convert. Why is that better if it's at the Presbyterian church? And it seems pretty obvious her DH DOES care since he's shocked she doesn't want a church wedding, like he does. Apparently OP has not really talked to him about what he wants at all.

No- OP states on page 2 of the thread that “he said we can do a nondenominational church” “wants to appease his family” etc. If that is offered she should most certainly run with it. If it is just for show, it is way easier to do that in a more relaxed church. Anyone with even a passing knowledge of Catholicism could tell you this- the Catholic Church does not make things easy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BTDT. Clearly you have some options- (1) roll over. They will demand to baptize the kids too, first communion, the whole nine yards. Are you going to be able to stand aside & let them do this, when it is your baby/kid? Try to imagine. Some people can, some can’t. For me, it was out of the question. 2) hold very firm. Will cause problems with the family and your DH will resent you.

As a non religious person who has BTDT with the Catholic relatives and been harped on about religion my whole life I present option 3: take “cover” in some type of liberal church or “church”. A lot of people do this. Find some excuse that you need to be married there and attend there- it is close to your house, you have friends who go there, you love the music program or community service or want to send future kid to their school. Think of something- Literally anything. Get married there, attend services maybe 2 times a year or participate in the volunteer program or whatever. When you have kids do whatever baby blessings or baptism ritual they offer. It provides cover and face saving on the ILs end “welllll at least grand baby is being raised Christian blah blah blah” “wellll at least they are being married in a church” blah blah and your future DH will see it is a compromise. He clearly does not care about religion. Not saying your ILs will exactly love this (they won’t- they want Catholic)- but they will grudgingly accept it.

That is your best choice here…take it from someone who has btdt

Why not just do the Catholic in this case? Why go out of your way to be more difficult, if you don't care anyway, to avoid the Catholic rituals? The husband won't want to go along with this farce when he's Catholic and there is a better alternative.

Because Catholicism is a LOT and will require her do a lot, and she will have future ILS dictating everything if she caves on this now. Her future DH doesn’t care about religion and just wants to avoid problems with his family.This is a way to do that long term.

How so? You're still saying do the baptism, go once or twice a year, volunteer, put on the show. How is that different? Nobody is asking her to convert. Why is that better if it's at the Presbyterian church? And it seems pretty obvious her DH DOES care since he's shocked she doesn't want a church wedding, like he does. Apparently OP has not really talked to him about what he wants at all.

No- OP states on page 2 of the thread that “he said we can do a nondenominational church” “wants to appease his family” etc. If that is offered she should most certainly run with it. If it is just for show, it is way easier to do that in a more relaxed church. Anyone with even a passing knowledge of Catholicism could tell you this- the Catholic Church does not make things easy.

Please. OP is full of it. Says her husband went to Catholic school and also church "here and there". As if kids in Catholic school don't go to mass weekly or more. And weird that they talked about raising the kids nonreligious but never talked about having a church wedding until after the venue was booked when suddenly he was "shocked" that she didn't want one. Troll.

[Anonymous]

Marriage is a commitment, not a vibe. If you can't honor your fiancé's religious values (which you've likely been long aware of) I'm not sure you're mature enough to take the next step.

One afternoon in a church and taking a few classes just isn't a big ask. Especially if your argument hinges on the efficiency of it all. If you're not religious, I don't buy that you care whether or not a mockery is being made. That's something you might tell yourself, but the argument doesn't hold up when tested.

I do wish you all the best and hope you're able to resolve this. Finding the right life partner shouldn't be taken lightly. If you're sure you found the right one, don't be so rigid that you ruin a beautiful thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:BTDT. Clearly you have some options- (1) roll over. They will demand to baptize the kids too, first communion, the whole nine yards. Are you going to be able to stand aside & let them do this, when it is your baby/kid? Try to imagine. Some people can, some can’t. For me, it was out of the question. 2) hold very firm. Will cause problems with the family and your DH will resent you.

As a non religious person who has BTDT with the Catholic relatives and been harped on about religion my whole life I present option 3: take “cover” in some type of liberal church or “church”. A lot of people do this. Find some excuse that you need to be married there and attend there- it is close to your house, you have friends who go there, you love the music program or community service or want to send future kid to their school. Think of something- Literally anything. Get married there, attend services maybe 2 times a year or participate in the volunteer program or whatever. When you have kids do whatever baby blessings or baptism ritual they offer. It provides cover and face saving on the ILs end “welllll at least grand baby is being raised Christian blah blah blah” “wellll at least they are being married in a church” blah blah and your future DH will see it is a compromise. He clearly does not care about religion. Not saying your ILs will exactly love this (they won’t- they want Catholic)- but they will grudgingly accept it.

That is your best choice here…take it from someone who has btdt

Why not just do the Catholic in this case? Why go out of your way to be more difficult, if you don't care anyway, to avoid the Catholic rituals? The husband won't want to go along with this farce when he's Catholic and there is a better alternative.

Because Catholicism is a LOT and will require her do a lot, and she will have future ILS dictating everything if she caves on this now. Her future DH doesn’t care about religion and just wants to avoid problems with his family.This is a way to do that long term.

How so? You're still saying do the baptism, go once or twice a year, volunteer, put on the show. How is that different? Nobody is asking her to convert. Why is that better if it's at the Presbyterian church? And it seems pretty obvious her DH DOES care since he's shocked she doesn't want a church wedding, like he does. Apparently OP has not really talked to him about what he wants at all.

No- OP states on page 2 of the thread that “he said we can do a nondenominational church” “wants to appease his family” etc. If that is offered she should most certainly run with it. If it is just for show, it is way easier to do that in a more relaxed church. Anyone with even a passing knowledge of Catholicism could tell you this- the Catholic Church does not make things easy.

Please. OP is full of it. Says her husband went to Catholic school and also church "here and there". As if kids in Catholic school don't go to mass weekly or more. And weird that they talked about raising the kids nonreligious but never talked about having a church wedding until after the venue was booked when suddenly he was "shocked" that she didn't want one. Troll.

Nothing surprising or unusual about her story actually. The guy isn’t actually religious but doesn’t want to upset his religious family. Same for most everyone I know? And I don’t think I am unusual in that respect. It is pretty common.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Marriage is a commitment, not a vibe. If you can't honor your fiancé's religious values (which you've likely been long aware of) I'm not sure you're mature enough to take the next step.

One afternoon in a church and taking a few classes just isn't a big ask. Especially if your argument hinges on the efficiency of it all. If you're not religious, I don't buy that you care whether or not a mockery is being made. That's something you might tell yourself, but the argument doesn't hold up when tested.

I do wish you all the best and hope you're able to resolve this. Finding the right life partner shouldn't be taken lightly. If you're sure you found the right one, don't be so rigid that you ruin a beautiful thing.

But are they her fiancé’s religious values? Or only his parents’ religious values? That is the question here. OP needs to find out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Find a simple chapel that isn’t affiliated with the Catholic Church (or any church). It is unethical for your fiancé’s family to ask you to lie about being a Catholic. I wouldn’t even consider that as an option.

I don't think they are asking her to lie about being Catholic, as they know that is not required. PP is assuming that.

However, OP does need to appreciate that this isn't just a wedding; it is a religious sacrament. One of the marriage vows OP will have to make to marry in the Catholic church is the vow before God, the Church and all present at the sacrament that she WILL raise the children Catholic. She should not lie about this. She does not want to make this vow, and so this is the most basic conversation she has to have with her fiance. Because it sounds like he wants to make this vow.